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Author Topic: Bristol connections: Metro, Bus Rapid Transit, PTE, ITA and local councils - discussion  (Read 286662 times)
Red Squirrel
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« Reply #405 on: June 10, 2013, 13:48:20 »


Four Track, Now?




Except it's all still a bit vague and Nostradamusy to my mind. I'd be happier if there was a phrase like 'replacement of bridge' in there somewhere, if that's what they need to do for requadrification.
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« Reply #406 on: June 12, 2013, 10:56:56 »

Only in so much as tomorrow (or sometime this week) is when the ORR» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) is supposed to be announcing their decision on the ability of NR» (Network Rail - home page) to do the work specified in the whole CP5 (Control Period 5 - the five year period between 2014 and 2019) HLOS (High Level Output Specification).

Filton Bank may not even register on the national scale...

ORR have published their PR13 (CP5) 'draft determination' today.   There's 815 pages in the whole report, and even then you'll not find item by item discussion of individual projects, it is still at a high level such as 'Bristol Area improvements':

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/pr13/consultations/draft-determination.php

I also notice the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) have distilled (dumbed down?) the whole output from ORR into something like '9 out of 10 trains to run on time', and more level crossings to be closed.  Includes the usual Crow predictions about safety being compromised as a matter of course...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22866696

Paul
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #407 on: June 14, 2013, 10:20:30 »

Clear evidence that NR» (Network Rail - home page) have made a pre-emptive start on repairing Stapleton Road viaduct, from the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):



Full story here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-22884537
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« Reply #408 on: June 15, 2013, 08:58:36 »

Perhaps some announcements of better public transport - say Bristol metro would make this look good? More meaningful that green trousers.

Bristol named European Green Capital for 2015

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Supporters of Bristol's bid for European Green Capital for 2015 status celebrate after hearing the city has won

Bristol has been crowned the European Green Capital for 2015 at a ceremony in Nantes.

The city beat Brussels in Belgium, Glasgow in Scotland and Ljubljana, the capital of Slovenia, to the win. Nantes in France currently holds the title.

The title rewards cities which consistently achieve high environmental standards and are committed to further improvement and sustainability.

Last year Bristol was the runner-up, finishing behind Copenhagen in Denmark.

It is the third time the city has made the final shortlist.

Speaking to the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) from the event in Nantes, elected mayor George Ferguson thought the judges liked the city's "enthusiasm, ambition and achievements over the last few years".

'I feel fortunate'
He said: "You talk to all of the cities that have been green capital - they're all here with me tonight - and they say it's made a huge difference to their cities, to the perception of the city, to making sure it's a really good place to live in.


"They have absolutely no doubt that it's been a platform for taking their environmental policies one step further.

"It's something that's very close to my heart, so I feel very fortunate that we find ourselves in this position."

Mr Ferguson, who was one of a seven-strong delegation representing the city of Bristol in France, said even though the win didn't bring any money directly to the city, it would bring business, investment and other economical benefits.

In Bristol, Liz Zeidler from the Bristol Green Capital Partnership said at an announcement event at the M Shed that the result was "absolutely fantastic".

"I'm quite emotional. So much work has been put in by so many people across this city, from top to bottom," she added.

"They knew what a difference it's going to make to our city, to our children's future, to the economy - all the things that matter to people in this city.

"So I am so delighted for everybody here who has been so supportive."

'Every citizen involved'
Eight cities submitted bids for 2015. They were assessed against 12 criteria including innovation and sustainable employment, energy performance, water consumption, waste water treatment and climate change.

"In the build up to 2015, we're going to get every single citizen in Bristol involved in this," added Ms Zeidler.

"We're going to hear all of the ideas people have got to make this city greener, happier and better for everybody.

"We're going to make those as much of a reality as we can. This will help us leverage the money, the support and the energy that we need to make it happen."

Previous winners

Copenhagen, Denmark
Nantes, France
Vitoria-Gasteiz, Spain
Hamburg, Germany
Stockholm, Sweden


Mayor George Ferguson pledged to swap his famous red trousers for a green pair if the city won
Bristol beat competition from Dublin in Ireland, Bydgoszcz in Poland, Kaunas in Lithuania and Kutahya in Turkey to reach the final stage of selection.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #409 on: June 15, 2013, 10:45:17 »


Perhaps some announcements of better public transport - say Bristol metro would make this look good? More meaningful that green trousers.


Winning this title can only strengthen the hand of those of us who want to help make Bristol an even better place to live.

George Ferguson, in changing his trousers, is exactly fulfilling his role as President of the Galaxy Mayor of Bristol. He has a small discretionary budget and limited direct power, but what he can do is make a lot of noise, make gestures, and shame the people with the power into making the right decisions.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 10:56:07 by Red Squirrel » Logged

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TonyK
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« Reply #410 on: June 16, 2013, 20:58:17 »

That list of previous winners prompted me to look at public transport systems in the green capitals.

Copenhagen - famous for cycling, and when I went there, for being colder than charity. K^benhavns Metro has two lines, 22 stations, 9 underground, and links with the S-train with its 84 stations in and around the capital, as well as the national DSB network. Two further driverless light rail lines are under construction. The airport line continues to Malmo. All public transport is integrated, meaning one ticket is valid for all modes.

Nantes - much warmer than Copenhagen. Has probably the largest and most efficient public transport network in France, with a three-line tramway, the first modern reintroduction of trams in Europe, integrated with 58 bus routes, and the local SNCF (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) services.

Vitoria-Gasteiz has high speed rail links to other parts of Spain, France, and Portugal. Local public transport is limited.

Hamburg has, as one would expect of German excellence, an extensive urban rail network, with 6 overground and 3 underground lines, plus extensive bus and ferry operations. There are several different operators. All are co-ordinated by Hamburger Verkehrsverbund, and tickets issued by one are valid on all. Many of the services operate at 2 to 3 minute intervals without a timetable.

Stockholm has a metro, two urban heavy rail lines, three light rail lines, a tramway, and many bus lines, all integrated, with tickets available in packs of 8, travel cards, and SMS text, as well as traditional formats.

Bristol has the Severn Beach line, plus four other rail stations, an expensive and unreliable main bus operator, only partly integrated with the railway and other operators. Most tickets are bought on the bus, and with the exception of the Avon Rider, are not usable on other routes. The major new plan is Bust Rabid Transit, which is really a cover story for a new road-building plan. I dare say Vitoria looks on Bristol with some envy, whereas the other green capitals probably look on us with a mixture of horror and disgust.
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ellendune
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« Reply #411 on: June 16, 2013, 21:38:59 »

Copenhagen - famous for cycling, and when I went there, for being colder than charity. K^benhavns Metro has two lines, 22 stations, 9 underground, and links with the S-train with its 84 stations in and around the capital, as well as the national DSB network. Two further driverless light rail lines are under construction. The airport line continues to Malmo. All public transport is integrated, meaning one ticket is valid for all modes.
I have been to Copenhagen - the metro is good, but it does not stop for long. On one occasion  in the peak.  There were so many people getting off that the doors shut automatically before anyone could get on!
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #412 on: June 16, 2013, 21:50:58 »


That list of previous winners prompted me to look at public transport systems in the green capitals.


...which led me to have a quick and dirty look at populations and population densities:

Vitoria-Gasteiz is by far the smallest of these cities, and also has a significantly lower population density - so it's perhaps unsurprising that it doesn't sustain much by way of public transport.

Copenhagen, Hamburg and Stockholm are all at least twice Bristol's size. Hamburg is significantly bigger but less dense. Probably not very comparable.

Nantes however is of a similar size and population density to Bristol. Need I say more? Well; just one thing: Nottingham, with its expanding tram system, also has a similar population density to Bristol and is a comparable size...

(All data from Wikipedia; populations are 'metro' figures)
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« Reply #413 on: June 16, 2013, 22:00:59 »

Trams 4 Bristol campaign anyone?  Grin

Anyway maybe Mr Mayor should take a look at what Leeds are doing with their trolleybus proposals I am certain such a route would bee pretty popular in Bristol and could certainly help prove demand before tramways are installed.

I wonder how much some low floor parry people movers will costs or maybe we can get hold of trampower and get them to build us some pacer trams with they cheaper to installed running lines since we wont have to move all the untilities.
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« Reply #414 on: June 17, 2013, 09:47:00 »

Seems somebody is not happy with the freight trains to Portbury docks:

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Pensioner-threatens-blockade-stop-noisy-trains/story-19306696-detail/story.html

I wouldnt be too surprised if he starts campaigning over the extra passenger services to Portishead disturbing him during the daytime.

Frankly the line has been there for many years so the residents in the should have realised there was always going to be a possibility that regular services were going to use the line and that trains will be noisy. There is plenty of freight passing through Pyle station at night yet I dont see the locals going to the local newspapers playing hell.

If this gentleman still isnt happy then move somwhere else
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #415 on: June 17, 2013, 11:05:18 »


Seems somebody is not happy with the freight trains to Portbury docks:


Quote

"If it takes me standing on the track to get something done then I am prepared to do it."


That sounds horribly like the kind of response someone with no media training might make when a journalist asks the question "So would you be prepared to stand in front of a train, Brian?"

Let's hope he doesn't.

Actually I'm surprised Mr Hunt and his neighbours didn't get double glazing installed for them when the M5 Bridge was built; you might have thought that the traffic on that would make a fair old racket through the night. Maybe it's more the vibration that's upsetting him?
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« Reply #416 on: June 17, 2013, 14:11:51 »

I once lived under the flight path of Luton Airport - and it was surprising just how quickly I got used to it, and didn't notice the noise.  I can recall one single occasion when something was dramatically lower / noisier than normal and scared the byjeebers out of us ... but just one.

Quote
"What upsets me most is my grandchildren and great grandchildren cannot stay over because they cannot sleep due to the noise of the trains."

I suspect, Mr Hunt, that if YOU show them that the noise is nothing to be conceded about, they won't be concerned either.  If you make an issue of it, so will they.   I see a whole row of houses, and I suspect that people of grandchild / great grandchild age live happily in some of them.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #417 on: June 19, 2013, 14:36:19 »

Just spotted this; it's the proposal for re-routing the most bonkers bit of the Bonkers Rusty Transit:

https://www.bristol.gov.uk/committee/2013/sc/sc024/0620_11.pdf

I find this much less objectionable to the current scheme:

1. It doesn't involve ripping up (and re-laying, sometime never) the Harbour Railway;
2. It doesn't route the buses through the Industrial Museum or over Prince St Bridge.

As far as I can see, the guideways have gone (did I miss something?). To my mind this means the thing has become a JAB (Just A Buslane) rather than the dreaded 'BRT (Bus Rapid Transit)'... I don't really object to buses as long as they don't rip up railways for them.

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« Reply #418 on: June 19, 2013, 22:48:03 »



Filton Bank may not even register on the national scale...

ORR» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) have published their PR13 (CP5 (Control Period 5 - the five year period between 2014 and 2019)) 'draft determination' today.   There's 815 pages in the whole report, and even then you'll not find item by item discussion of individual projects, it is still at a high level such as 'Bristol Area improvements':

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/pr13/consultations/draft-determination.php


Paul


I found mention of Dr Days to Filton Bank in page 783, in Annex E: Funding of Enhancement Projects. It is one of the schemes subject to further review, as "Other named schemes and CP4 (Control Period 4 - the five year period between 2009 and 2014) Rollover". It is listed as "Dr Days to Filton Abbey Wood capacity", so isn't necessarily Four Track, Yet. Others more connected than I to the corridors of power in Bristol City Hall seem to think it's a more or less done deal. I await the first hard hats.

Just spotted this; it's the proposal for re-routing the most bonkers bit of the Bonkers Rusty Transit:

https://www.bristol.gov.uk/committee/2013/sc/sc024/0620_11.pdf

I find this much less objectionable to the current scheme:

1. It doesn't involve ripping up (and re-laying, sometime never) the Harbour Railway;
2. It doesn't route the buses through the Industrial Museum or over Prince St Bridge.

As far as I can see, the guideways have gone (did I miss something?). To my mind this means the thing has become a JAB (Just A Buslane) rather than the dreaded 'BRT (Bus Rapid Transit)'... I don't really object to buses as long as they don't rip up railways for them.



Although the report doesn't explicitly mention it, I have read elsewhere that some guided busway must remain, or DafT won't see it as a public transport initiative, but will recognise it as the road-building exercise that it really is. So although the buses will have to enter and leave a number of guided sections, slowing each time, we must keep them or we don't get the money. If that happens, the whole crapola scheme bites the dust, millions are finally seen to have been utterly wasted, and my champagne bill will hit the roof.

The residents of Cumberland Road, and they are more than you may think, will not be amused. Nor will Spike Island, where Aardman live, and where a very large number of the staff arrive by bicycle. Those coming from the south and west do so over the very popular cycle and walking route, away from all the traffic, that will be destroyed with the commandeering of Ashton Avenue bridge. That route is also extremely popular amongst the students at UWE's Bower Ashton campus, as well as Bristol City fans, who in my limited experience are unlikely to be deterred from trespass on matchdays by something as insignificant as a "Walking Verboten" sign. The police, incidentally, are rumoured to have warned against letting football fans use the buses from Temple Meads.

Also not happy will be the park and ride passengers. Stop BRT2 hired their own transport consultant, and conducted surveys. These showed that the majority of P&R (Park and Ride) passengers on the currently perfectly adequate bus service along Hotwell Road disembark at Anchor Road or the centre, with few continuing to Temple Meads. The journey to work for the majority will therefore be lengthened, unless the existing bus route is retained, If that happened, BRT, or Build Roads Today, would run almost empty at huge cost, whilst the 903 continued to flourish.

Also not happy will be the many people who will no longer be able to catch the airport bus in south Bristol, because from Temple Meads, it will double back to avoid the major centres of population. This will not inconvenience just holiday makers, clutching buckets, spades, Heinz beans, diarrhea tablets etc, but also a lot of the workforce, who rely on the the unsocial hours kept by the Flyer to get to the airport.

The saving of Prince Street bridge and the Harbour Railway, and indeed the ambience of the Harbourside area including M-Shed is a plus, but still doesn't justify this awful scheme. The consultation was woefully inadequate - a lot of people on the original route were completely unaware of the scheme until local pressure groups handed out leaflets. A lot of people in Highridge, Withywood, and Hartcliffe will soon wake up to the fact that their childrens' safe playgrounds will be a major road, built to give lorries a safe route from the A370 to Brislington's trading estates without making a mess of Coronation Road, but open to all traffic - with a few ponced-up buses to nowhere they want to go thrown in to justify the eye-watering costs.

Bristol City Council are to be recommended to leave the compulsory purchase orders for the southern Bristol link to North Somerset DC (Direct Current). That move is acknowledged as posing a medium risk of legal action. I don't know many people in the area who would know how to go about that. A much higher risk of legal calamity will come from Long Ashton, IMHO (in my humble opinion), where the populace have already scuppered the new football ground with their town green and landscape plans - although there, I reckon Lansdowne may get the last laugh, by abandoning the stadium, and building a glue factory instead.

Wholly in favour of this madcrap scheme are about two councillors, the unelected, unaccountable oligarchy that is West of England Partnership, and North Som and S Glos councils, whose citizens will find it easier to drive to the residents' parking zones in Bristol. And of course, Atkins, who will trouser much of the scarce millions being lavished on this abomination. Others are at best lukewarm. The Mayor's outraged antipathy has mellowed to a desire to meddle with only a small part of the route. Councillor Mark Bradshaw, who has taken on the transport portfolio, now calls "Metrobus" an important part of the city's anti-congestion, clean air, and (of course) carbon reduction strategy. Not the "lame duck project with virtually zero public support" he called it last November. I reckon they have both been nobbled by DafT. One of them would never take a backhander, the other would never need one, so I think they've been told in no uncertain terms that they are stuck with it, even if it is as much use as a chocolate teapot, and as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit.

In case anyone is still unsure as to my take on the whole sorry shambles that is Bust Rabid Transit, I am against it. In one sense, I don't wholly blame the local councils - after all, we voted them in or didn't vote them out. They were given Avon County Council in 1974, only to have it taken away again in 1996, just as they were getting used to it. That, to my mind, was the beginning of the end for any tram system. The fact that it took 9 more years for that finally to be knocked on the head, then another 6 years for the present fiasco to be submitted says much about the way national politics are done.  This has been foisted on us by DafT as a booby prize for not getting it right first time, but to my mind, it serves to show how little authority actually rests with local councils, and how not much more rests with national government.

[/rant]
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #419 on: June 20, 2013, 09:45:55 »

I too am completely opposed to the BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) scheme. I find it very sad that almost the whole council are prepared to vote down the RPS, but few seem to care very much about the monumental squandering of resources that is the BRT.

To clarify, my comments only refer to the proposed re-routing, which I think makes the best of a really, really bad job.

Perhaps we should ask Mr Brian Hunt (80), of Pill, if he'd be prepared to come and stand in front of the first bus? http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=551.msg134628#msg134628

Incidentally FT, N! (leaving aside your markup error) I don't think 'rant' tags are required when all you are doing is calmly stating the facts from a neutral point of view.

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