Bristol connections: Metro, Bus Rapid Transit, PTE, ITA and local councils - discussion

[whole diary]

[chuffed]

Interesting comparison... Question.....what connects these 2 projects ?

To build 170 miles of canal across Nicaragua connecting the Caribbean and Pacific oceans Cost ^26bn using Chinese labour , technology and entrepreneurial investment

To restore 3 miles of  railway line Portishead to Portbury ...as part of Metrowest.

Answer... same timescale starting 2014 finish in 2019.

Is it any wonder, we despair of anything ever getting done in this country ?

[TonyK]

The photomontages and artist's impressions rather bring home the point that FT,N! has made several times: This looks like a road with buses on, not a rapid transit route.

Not necessarily, Red Squirrel. There may yet not be buses, at least no more than the minimum necessary to persuade DafT that this isn't just a road building scheme.

I too was a bit surprised to see on the N Som website that we were back to GRIP^▸ (Guide to Railway Investment Projects) 1. They claim that none of the previous work up to GRIP 3 will be wasted, and I get the impression that actually it's largely a matter of letting the rest of the MetroWest scheme catch up. But don't the wheels grind slowly!

North Somerset DC^▸ (Direct Current) have just spent money on stripping the vegetation from the track, so that GRIP 4 can begin. Presumably, they will ask it not to grow again? My own pet conspiracy theory suggests that we were lucky to stop at GRIP 1.

Portishead Railway was at one time scheduled to open in 2016, a year after Bust Rabid Transit. Whatever anyone might say, the BRT^▸ (Bus Rapid Transit) programme has slipped quite heavily, and will probably slip again soon. The Public Inquiry report has not yet been released, 9 months after it was due.

The first bit to open is BRT2, or AVTM, Ashton Vale to Temple Meads. The business case for this route is largely based upon being able to transport a substantial number of people from the Long Ashton Park and Ride to Temple Meads. Many of the current users come from Portishead and Pill, so if the railway was open, the justification for the BRT route would collapse.That in itself is no big deal, except that BRT2 is the sine qua non for the whole ridiculous Metrobust scheme. That in itself is nothing but a Trojan horse to get a couple of roads built, to ease the pain of businesses, whose heavy lorries have difficulty getting to and from the industrial estates.

Portishead Railway, despite being cheaper, technically easier, less damaging, and popularly supported, could not be allowed to open first, or the DafT folks will see the empty Park and Ride, and the trains full of commuters, happy they no longer have to drive at all, and will say "Hang on a minute..."

So each delay in Metrobust will be followed by the announcement of a further delay in the Portishead line. Only once 30 tonne lorries are able to drive over Highridge Common, along King Georges Road, and through the middle of Withywood will we be able to think about improvements to public transport. It's a scandal.

[trainer]

I think this is a cynical, but probably accurate assessment, FTN.  I will only disagree with it if I see evidence to the contrary and there's no sign of that so far.

[Red Squirrel]

...Only once 30 tonne lorries are able to drive over Highridge Common, along King Georges Road, and through the middle of Withywood will we be able to think about improvements to public transport.

I think my views on the private motor car are probably fairly easy to infer by anyone who's read any of the drivel I've scribbled on this forum, but the progress on the various rail improvement schemes we've been discussing in this thread look positively breakneck compared to the South Bristol Ring Road - Withywood was planned around the idea 60 years ago.

[TonyK]

I think my views on the private motor car are probably fairly easy to infer by anyone who's read any of the drivel I've scribbled on this forum, but the progress on the various rail improvement schemes we've been discussing in this thread look positively breakneck compared to the South Bristol Ring Road - Withywood was planned around the idea 60 years ago.

I would shed no tears if it took another 60 years. I make the journey almost weekly from around Arnos Vale to the A38, en route to Devon. I cut through K West, and over Highridge Green. Spending all that money on the South Bristol Link would cut about a minute less, not worth sacrificing so much for.

[Red Squirrel]

Good news about Ashley Hill Station; less good news about Horfield Halt:

A NEW railway station in north Bristol is a step closer after being backed by Network Rail.

At a city council cabinet meeting tonight it was revealed that the track operator had expressed support for plans to build a new Ashley Hill station as part of the MetroWest rail network.

But the company has said the original ambition to build another station at Horfield cannot be achieved as well, as the two cannot both be accommodated on a modern line which could be expanded to four tracks.

See full story

I'm surprised by this - I thought part of the reason for the extra track capacity was to allow for local trains. If they don't stop, they aren't very local!

[TonyK]

I'm surprised by "a modern line which could be expanded to four tracks". I thought four-tracking was much closer to a done deal than that.

But then I would, wouldn't I?

[anthony215]

Speaking to some others I know the general opinion is that the filton 4 tracking will go ahead but not all the proposed stations will be built as a means to keep the costs down.

Ok I personally would rather have  a limited amount of new stations built if it means that the Portishead and Henbury lines as re-opened asap. The new stations could be built at a latter date if Network Rail leave space for them.

That said I would have thought Horfeld would have gotten the nod over Ashley Hill due to the areas where each station is located.

 Julys issue of Modern Railways has a great feacture  on the GW^▸ (Great Western) area which includes looking at the Bristol Metro which is a good read

[Red Squirrel]

I'm surprised by "a modern line which could be expanded to four tracks". I thought four-tracking was much closer to a done deal than that.

But then I would, wouldn't I?

I'd put it down as random journobabble. There won't be any new stations without extra track capacity, and I simply have no idea by what stretch of the imagination the Bristol and South Wales Union Railway (c.1863) is labelled 'modern'.

Speaking to some others I know the general opinion is that the filton 4 tracking will go ahead but not all the proposed stations will be built as a means to keep the costs down.

Ok I personally would rather have  a limited amount of new stations built if it means that the Portishead and Henbury lines as re-opened asap. The new stations could be built at a latter date if Network Rail leave space for them.

That said I would have thought Horfeld would have gotten the nod over Ashley Hill due to the areas where each station is located.

 Julys issue of Modern Railways has a great feacture  on the GW^▸ (Great Western) area which includes looking at the Bristol Metro which is a good read

I would have hoped there was scope for reopening both Ashley Hill and Horfield, but if there can only be one then Ashley Hill is the obvious choice, despite its proximity (a mile and a half distant) to Montpelier and the anguished cries of the class warriors who favour Horfield. Ashley Hill has a much denser catchment area, and is also handy for the County Ground which, it is hoped by GCCC, will host more large events in future.

I can't see Horfield being added later though; the BCR^▸ (Benefit Cost Ratio) for this station is (I would think) marginal at best, and the cost of adding it later would presumably be much greater than the cost of building it when the new lines are added.

[anthony215]

Seems to now be further delays to re-opening the Henbury loop now as Bristol Council want to see the results of re-development of Filton Airfield.  At least that is according to what the campaigners for the Henbury loop posted on facebook last night.

 I am of the opinion that have a up and running rail development which is operational and providing a good frequent service would be a good selling point for the homes being built


My personal opinion with the track already in place I would  push the Henbury loop up the list to be one of the 1st parts of the Bristol metro lines to be re-opened. All we really need is some modifications to teh signalling I think some stations, rolling stock and filton bank to be 4 tracked, why Portishead needs the track and signalling upgraded as well as some new sections of track laid

[TonyK]

I think Horfield's big problem is the depth of the cutting it was situated in:



It would not be easy, especially with accessibility for disabled passengers.

West of England Partnership is, IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion), holding back improvements in public transport, so that its hated Metrobust project does not look even more rubbish than it already does. Bristol Post reports the latest attempt to scupper the whole thing, in the form of a possible judicial review by Stop BRT2. Mayor Ferguson has changed his tune since his election.

Route decision was 'disastrous'

CAMPAIGNERS against the MetroBus route say it was "disastrous" for mayor George Ferguson to change it so it runs along Cumberland Road.

They believe that by far the best option would be to take the ^49million route along Hotwell Road, which they believe would be better suited to bus users.
 ​
No one from the campaign was available for comment last night.

A statement on their website says: "The financial, transport modelling issues and environmental concerns raised by us were largely ignored, as were the large number of written statements.

"The decision was made without any meaningful public consultation.

"A very limited 'consultation' took place after the decision' during the summer holidays' but people may well have missed the point of this' as the name has been changed from BRT2 to MetroBus. Also, it was not possible to say in that so say 'consultation' whether you supported or opposed the scheme.

"We continue with our campaign."

Mr Ferguson said: "We have received a solicitor's letter which says a legal challenge is possible.

"We will be responding fully within the timeframe requested.

"It's a real irony that those who campaigned so vigorously to divert the route away from Prince Street and the harbour should now be considering such action.

"Sadly, there is a real danger that a successful application could force us to move back to the original proposed route.

"It was changed for very good reasons but a judicial review could endanger that decision and put us back in a place where no one wants to be.

"Any effort to delay or destroy the MetroBus plan costs the city and its partners money, and threatens both our economy and environment.

"There is a dire need to tackle congestion and improve air quality in Bristol.

"MetroBus is a cornerstone of the plan to encourage more people out of their cars and we will robustly defend ourselves against any threats to it."

[Red Squirrel]

Martin Luther King had a dream ^ I have a nightmare, and that is that in 25 years' time, Bristol will still be arguing about its transport

A TOP South Gloucestershire councillor has backed Bristol mayor George Ferguson's attack on minority groups who use the legal system to try to stop major projects.

Brian Allinson is chairman of the powerful West of England Partnership's transport executive, which drives forward major schemes to ease traffic congestion in the Bristol region.

Mr Allinson told the Bristol Post: "I am 100 per cent behind the mayor on this one.

"It seems today that whatever you try to do to improve things for everyone, some single-interest group will start a campaign to destroy it.

"Take the MetroBus, for example. It is really the only game on the table that has any chance of winning and will provide a springboard to move Bristol on. But the rail lobby are determined to kill it.

"Martin Luther King had a dream ^ I have a nightmare, and that is that in 25 years' time, Bristol will still be arguing about its transport."

See Bristol Post article for rest of story.

Oh, Brian... I think you just compared yourself to one of the great visionaries of the 20th century. I don't think I need say more.

[trainer]

Re: Red Squirrels interesting posting above:

Hi-jacking this famous line and re-working it for a less worthy cause is the stuff of advertisers (see Private Eye for the worst examples) and politicians lacking in...vision?  a good speech writer?...something, anyway.

Leaving that to one side, the early comments under the article are informative and one respondent points out that the picture in the Post seems to show Mr Allinson as a spokesperson for First.  This may be politicking by the Post or an unfortunate choice of image, I don't know. 

Many of us on here are rather more inclined to support public transport generally rather than rail specifically, so to describe those advocating light or heavy rail solutions as 'single interest' is inaccurate.  It seems that, in Mr Allinson's case, 'vision' is about practicality of obtaining funding in the immediate future.  For me true vision is about aiming for the very best and finding solutions to beat the doom-mongers who insist that this is the best you're going to get.  Obviously a personal helicopter for everyone (apparently suggested on one occasion by a Swedish politician as a cheaper option than keeping the Inlandsbanen in Northern Sweden open) is a ridiculous vision.  Do light rail AND decent buses fall into the same category?  I think not.

I do agree with him that it is too easy for some very small-minded people to stop ambitious projects, but electing them to Parliament and onto our councils doesn't help.  Some of our MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) and councillors have wonderful insight into what is possible.  We need more of them.

[TonyK]

I have a nightmare, that Brian Allinson will still be in charge of transport in 25 years time. Metrobust is the only game in town because of the failure of Bristol and South Gloucester to work together properly. It is the booby prize for getting it wrong. I have absolutely nothing against buses, but spending nearly ^200 million on a road building scheme, then pretending it's all about public transport, is just wrong. Bristol has no shortage of roads or buses, but they are not the first choice of transport for most people. Metrobust will do little or nothing to change that. Building new roads will never lead to reduced traffic anywhere except in the minds of WEP's members.

As for helicopters, my first flying instructor held the view that your life depends on one nut. Or two, if you include the pilot. My son-in-law mends them for a living, and had a recent white-knuckle ride around Dartmoor as a reward. The results of his handiwork are visible here. I love the technique of the departure - lift the chopper 6 feet off the floor, hold it there, have a quick butcher's at the T's and P's*, then if you like what you see, carry on. I'll stick to fixed wing, thank you! To keep this "on thread", I have included an overhead shot of BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains). WEP would be proud of me.

(*Temperatures and pressures)

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the Post (Bristol):

Rail campaigners 'cut off' from city

Looking towards Bristol from a railway bridge in Lockleaze, you can see a patch of nondescript land which could transform the area's transport links to the rest of the city.

This is the site, near Constable Road, where campaigners would like to see a new railway station as part of Network Rail's plans to upgrade the line between Temple Meads and Parkway stations.


Rail campaigners, including MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) Charlotte Leslie, staged a walk in support of a new station at Constable Road. The walk took them from Southmead Hospital to Constable Road.  Picture: Jon Kent

Lou Kirby, 33, a cafe worker who lives in Brangwyn Grove, said: "We are cut off from the rest of the city because we do not have any direct transport links. We do not even have a direct bus route to Gloucester Road which is our main shopping centre. We all feel that we are stuck out on a limb."

Lou is one of about 40 campaigners who held a walk and rally in support of a new station at Constable Road.

Brian Lomas, a retired BAe engineer who lives in Horfield, said: "If we are going to solve Bristol's transport problems, we need a frequent and local train service."

Jane Cunningham, chairman of Horfield's neighbourhood partnership, said that a new station would create a vital transport link for people from all over the region who need to travel to and from the new regional hospital at Southmead.

Transport campaigners have been calling for two new stations to be built between Temple Meads and Parkway. But last month it emerged that track operator Network Rail favoured a new station in one location only, at Ashley Hill.

It rejected the idea of reinstating the former Horfield station, saying that the layout of a planned upgrade, which would see the number of tracks in the area doubled from two to four, would make this impossible.

But campaigners argue that Constable Road, where there are some disused sidings, would be a viable alternative site for a second station.

Bristol North West Conservative MP Charlotte Leslie, who has been campaigning in support of plans for a local train network, took part in the walk from Southmead Hospital to Constable Road. She said: "Lockleaze has been seen as a second cousin in Bristol for years and years, yet there is huge potential here. It is a superb community and there is so much regeneration about to happen. It therefore makes absolute common sense to have good transport links."

City council Liberal Democrat ward councillor Sean Emmett said: "Network Rail said they cannot reopen Horfield station because they need the site for a crossover when we get four-tracking. That is fair enough ^ but there is no reason why they should not open a new station at Constable Road as well as Ashley Hill. It is a no-brainer because so many people would use it."