Saturday service overcrowding

[whole diary]

[Jez]

I travelled from Port Talbot into Cardiff yesterday on the West Wales to Manchester service (1113 from Port Talbot arriving into Cardiff around 1145) - these trains on Saturdays are often really overcrowded and yesterday there were loads of people standing up, myself included. There was no chance of getting a trolley through, the train manager could barely get through to check the tickets and when someone wanted to get to the toilets it was really difficult.  The return journey back at 1804 was also a 2 car and no less busy, although I did get a seat there were still people standing, could hardly get off the train tho as there were loads standing by the doors and someone had a bike.

My question is are these trains supposed to be booked 2 cars - if so why arent they 3 cars as surely ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) realise they are well used on a Saturday - if they are booked 3 cars why do so many run short formed?

When Rugby season starts it will be even worst as even the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) high speed trains are overcrowded - the ATW services you might not even be able to get onto the train!

[devon_metro]

WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) seems to give preferncial treatment to services that stay in wales. Mainly the services to Holyhead.

Stupid, but true. (why do you think the WAGEX runs to Holyhead when it would make more sense to Manchester)

[John R]

There were two cup matches in South Wales on Saturday, the FA Cup in Cardiff,  and the Heineken Cup involving the Ospreys. Both involving Leicester opposition who went back home empty-handed.   


The number and frequency of trains between Port Talbot and Cardiff is much improved over 20 years ago, and is underpinned by the hourly HST^▸ (High Speed Train), which would have many more seats to hoover up the passengers. 

[Hafren]

My question is are these trains supposed to be booked 2 cars - if so why arent they 3 cars as surely ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) realise they are well used on a Saturday - if they are booked 3 cars why do so many run short formed?

I don't know about Saturdays, but I've used the 1055 from Swansea (i.e. 1113 from PTA^▸ (Passenger Transport Authority)) a number of times in the past year as it ultimately connects with the 1310 Bristol-Waterloo (much more civilisaed than using the Cardiff-Portsmouths!), and it does seemed to be booked 2 car on weekdays. And it's usually been full at Swansea and rammed from Bridgend. I've usually used it on Fridays, or during obvious holiday periods, which will make it busier, so perhaps it's not as bad on a more typical weekday, but on those occasions comparable to the Saturday situation.

I saw the 1804 leave Swansea (1905 or whatever it is) yesterday and it was still quite full, but not excessively so by that point. Tracing back what it does that day, assuming I've followed it through properly, it seems to start as the morning service from Pembroke Dock to Manchester, which does usually have 2 cars on weekdays and Saturdays.

On Saturdays and school holidays even the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) can become full with the mid-morning leisure travel to Cardiff, so the 175s don't stand a chance!

I suspect it's quite a hard task to decide which 175 diagrams should have the 3-car sets, as they must all pass through a busy section at some point. Personally I'd like to see them all having 3 cars - can anyone spare a magic wand?

[Mookiemoo]

On friday I was on the 1734 from Newport to Holyhead - that was a 2 car as well - its was more than a little cosy even when I got off at Ludlow

Asked the guard when he finally came through and apparently that was all that was available - so I wonder if they have stock issues

[Jez]

My question is are these trains supposed to be booked 2 cars - if so why arent they 3 cars as surely ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) realise they are well used on a Saturday - if they are booked 3 cars why do so many run short formed?

I don't know about Saturdays, but I've used the 1055 from Swansea (i.e. 1113 from PTA^▸ (Passenger Transport Authority)) a number of times in the past year as it ultimately connects with the 1310 Bristol-Waterloo (much more civilisaed than using the Cardiff-Portsmouths!), and it does seemed to be booked 2 car on weekdays. And it's usually been full at Swansea and rammed from Bridgend. I've usually used it on Fridays, or during obvious holiday periods, which will make it busier, so perhaps it's not as bad on a more typical weekday, but on those occasions comparable to the Saturday situation.

I saw the 1804 leave Swansea (1905 or whatever it is) yesterday and it was still quite full, but not excessively so by that point. Tracing back what it does that day, assuming I've followed it through properly, it seems to start as the morning service from Pembroke Dock to Manchester, which does usually have 2 cars on weekdays and Saturdays.

On Saturdays and school holidays even the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) can become full with the mid-morning leisure travel to Cardiff, so the 175s don't stand a chance!

I suspect it's quite a hard task to decide which 175 diagrams should have the 3-car sets, as they must all pass through a busy section at some point. Personally I'd like to see them all having 3 cars - can anyone spare a magic wand?

Yes ive travelled on the 1113 from Port Talbot a few times and it always seems to be a 2 car - - if i follow the diagram correctly this is the 1530 from Manchester Picadilly to Pembroke Dock which leaves Cardiff for Pembroke at 1904 which ive also caught and I believe this makes swanline stops.  So both the 1804 and 1904 off Cardiff would be 2 cars?

It would be great if all 175 were 3 cars but I think its 50% 2 cars and 50% 3 cars, and they have to divide the 175 between Manchester-Llandudno, Cardiff-Holyhead and Milford Haven/Carmarthen-Manchester trains, with a few 158^s still used on the South Wales-Manchester/Holyheads. Anyone know if the Manchester to North Wales trains are mainly 3 or 2 car or is there an even balance like the South Wales-Manchester trains seem to be?

[Jez]

When I was waiting for my train home on Saturday, I noticed the 1720 from Cardiff to Holyhead (1734 from Newport) was a 2 car 158 which looked fairly full with a few people standing^ it doesn^t seem to be that often that they use 158^s on the Holyheads anymore although I have noticed them on the Manchester services on Saturday more often than weekdays.

Was the 1734 to Holyhead a 175 on Friday?

[Mookiemoo]

When I was waiting for my train home on Saturday, I noticed the 1720 from Cardiff to Holyhead (1734 from Newport) was a 2 car 158 which looked fairly full with a few people standing^ it doesn^t seem to be that often that they use 158^s on the Holyheads anymore although I have noticed them on the Manchester services on Saturday more often than weekdays.

Was the 1734 to Holyhead a 175 on Friday?

Yes

[Jez]

I think the Cardiff-Manchester service is on the same scale as the Cardiff-Portsmouth service in terms of distance and being a semi fast service with quite a lot of calling points. Therefore I think the Cardiff-Manchester service should have a 3 car unit on most if not all services like the Portsmouth services now appear to have.

ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) provides the main direct link from Manchester to places like Chester, Crewe and Shrewsbury as well as South Wales, so id say its fair enough that the best units are used for services in and out of Manchester - just a pity there arent more carriages available.

[matt473]

From what I gather the Llanududno to Manchester service requires 3 car sets as it is usually a busy service. This is another case of diagramming units to one job will lead to problems in another part. Difficult to make the right decisions in these cases

[Jez]

From what I gather the Llanududno to Manchester service requires 3 car sets as it is usually a busy service. This is another case of diagramming units to one job will lead to problems in another part. Difficult to make the right decisions in these cases

Im not surprised as it is the main service between Manchester and Chester (with the Northern rail service being a stopping service I think) as well as Warrington Bank Quay so would need a 3 car id imagine.

Also im sure the agreement was that the 175's were on loan to ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) providing they stayed in the North West/North Wales region (the depot being Chester) so I guess we are lucky so many come down to Cardiff/West Wales.

[eightf48544]

Roll on the 1300 new coaches or have they vanished into the mist.

[John R]

Pea-souper more like.

There's a strong expectation that the Thameslink order will be confirmed on 25th march, which is the last day such an announcement can be made before the GE. But that'll be a year late, and entry into service is not now expected until in 2013.

And of course the stock cascaded will have those funny little wiry bits sticking out of the top that spark now and again, so not much use down our way for a year or seven.

[paul7575]

Pea-souper more like.

There's a strong expectation that the Thameslink order will be confirmed on 25th march, which is the last day such an announcement can be made before the GE. But that'll be a year late, and entry into service is not now expected until in 2013.

And of course the stock cascaded will have those funny little wiry bits sticking out of the top that spark now and again, so not much use down our way for a year or seven.

They'll have a cunning plan though. The 319s sent 'oop north' will allow more Pacers for Bristol...

Paul

[welshman]

There were two cup matches in South Wales on Saturday, the FA Cup in Cardiff,  and the Heineken Cup involving the Ospreys. Both involving Leicester opposition who went back home empty-handed.   

Slightly off topic but bears repeating.  It's as pleasing as Man U losing.