Saturday service overcrowding

[whole diary]

[inspector_blakey]

As a general rule of thumb from my experiences, the Manchester services that originate or terminate at Milford Haven tend to show up as a 3-car unit. Those that originate/terminate Carmarthen are more usually 2-car 175 units.

I'm sure that's not a hard and fast rule but it seems to work reasoanbly well. And the trains aren't all 3-car because. sadly, there aren't enough 3-car 175 units to go around.

By the way, just in case anyone thinks it's a waste sending 3-car units to Milford, many's the time I've caught a Manchester-bound 3-car train at Whitland that's been virtually full already (seemingly containing half the population of Haverfordwest and milford - I'm guessing they can't all be coming from Johnston and Clynderwen...) and stayed busy until Cardiff where I changed trains.

[Mookiemoo]

and stayed busy until Cardiff where I changed trains.

Assuming you were catching an FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to London - why on earth not time it change at swansea and spend less time in the sardine can

[inspector_blakey]

An excellent question. And one to which I'm not 100% sure of the answer... Although I mostly travel to Oxford when heading in that direction rather than London, and I think generally the up Cardiff services call Didcot whereas the up Swanseas don't (feel free to put me straight if I'm talking out of my backside, folks). And it's definitely easier when travelling to Bristol TM^‡(resolve) from west Wales to take the 2-hourly option that is a 175 to CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains), changing more or less straight into the Portsmouth service.

But having said that, the 175s are pretty comfortable (very similar interior spec to the Adelantes) so unless it's grossly overcrowded I'm not generally in a huge hurry to get off.

[Hafren]

An excellent question. And one to which I'm not 100% sure of the answer... Although I mostly travel to Oxford when heading in that direction rather than London, and I think generally the up Cardiff services call Didcot whereas the up Swanseas don't (feel free to put me straight if I'm talking out of my backside, folks).

The up Swanseas are a bit erratic - they tend to stop at Didcot every 2 hours. They tend to leave Swindon just before the 2-hourly service  from Cheltenhams, and stop at Didcot in the hours when there's no train from Cheltenham to make the stop. Unlike the down daytime Swanseas, which mostly don't stop there.

<Hastily checks it's still the case in current timetable...> Yes, still seems to be the case. However, the Didcot stop is in the hours when there's no Pembroke Dock connection, so if you're travelling Whitland-Didcot you would be better off as already suggested on the ex-Milfords changing at Cardiff.

[Hafren]

From what I gather the Llanududno to Manchester service requires 3 car sets as it is usually a busy service. This is another case of diagramming units to one job will lead to problems in another part. Difficult to make the right decisions in these cases

Im not surprised as it is the main service between Manchester and Chester (with the Northern rail service being a stopping service I think) as well as Warrington Bank Quay so would need a 3 car id imagine.

For those who are interested, there are some old diagrams from 2007 at <http://www.prar.fsnet.co.uk/diagrams.html>. A bit out of date, but there's a good indication of the 2/3 car split. It does confirm that 3-car units are used for Manchester/Llandudno. Obviously there have been quite a lot of changes since then, e.g. the evening peak Maesteg is now a 3-car unit following the Maesteg line platform lengthening (so another 3-car diagram is probably 2 car in lieu), and local services have changed quite a bit, and the Crewe-Holyheads now run Birmingham Intl-Holyhead, and interwork with the Cambrian line service, and thus have to be 158s. Which means much fewer 158s are left to go south. In terms of the Marches, I'd expect 158s to be more common on Holyheads than the Manchesters, because of the obvious need to transfer between Cardiff and Chester/Holyhead now that they're required on certain services up there. I suspect some need to reach Carmarthen from time to time to retain crew knowledge, but they're becoming a rarity, especailyl on weekdays. Some Maesteg services are still 158s, some of which start as morning Chester-Cardiff/Maesteg services.

With 175s, the priority is probably to put 3 car sets on the Llandudno/Manchesters and the obvious Cardiff peak workings (e.g. 1650/1720/1750 Marches, 1721 Maesteg, 1704 Swanline/Milford) etc, and whatever's left ends up being landed with 2 car units.

[Jez]

The Milford Haven is only a 2 hour service so it makes sense for it to be a 3 car given the volume of passengers and also there are more frequent trains passing through and starting at Carmarthen.  Most of the Pembroke Dock trains are 2 cars I think? Or even 1 cars? Im sure they use some 153's as they share units with Heart of Wales sometimes.

I think we do get more 158's on Holyheads than Manchesters - apart from weekends the last time I saw a 158 on a Manchester service was ages ago. Also most of the Holyheads seem to be 175's these days. It would be interesting to know how many 158's are still allocated to the Manchester/Holyhead-South/West Wales services.  Also how many to Maesteg as they seem to be mainly 150's now.

150's must be quite heavily used as they are used for most Maesteg and Ebbw Valley and about half of the Valley Lines as well as some Borderlines, Swanline and Pembroke/Fishguard services. Plus they get used if they are short of units on the Manchester services on occasions.

[Hafren]

The Milford Haven is only a 2 hour service so it makes sense for it to be a 3 car given the volume of passengers and also there are more frequent trains passing through and starting at Carmarthen.  Most of the Pembroke Dock trains are 2 cars I think? Or even 1 cars? Im sure they use some 153's as they share units with Heart of Wales sometimes.

I've never really noticed a pattern with the Milfords; I'd have thought it has more to do with which diagrams pass through Cardiff at critical times. I rarely travel between Whitland and Milford Haven; if it's that busy perhaps it should become hourly (magic wand time again!), perhaps with a Sprinter shuttling from Carmarthen in the additional hours to avoid using more express units. Pembroke Dock has a mix of Sprinters - outside of the summer peak a 153 is quite adequate. I believe one diagram still ends with a Fishguard service, before going to the Heart of Wales the next day, and that is usually a 153; the others seem to produce an even mix of 150 and 153s.

I think we do get more 158's on Holyheads than Manchesters - apart from weekends the last time I saw a 158 on a Manchester service was ages ago. Also most of the Holyheads seem to be 175's these days. It would be interesting to know how many 158's are still allocated to the Manchester/Holyhead-South/West Wales services.  Also how many to Maesteg as they seem to be mainly 150's now.

When I was commuting to Cardiff last year, there was usually 15x on the morning peak Chester-Cardiff-Maesteg - it seemed to vary between 150 and 158 (sometimes it looked like it might have been one of each, splitting at Cardiff, but I'm not certain). I imagine that service is often used to send the Bidston 150s back to Cardiff. I've also noticed 158s still appearing on the daytime Holyhead-Maesteg through trains. I very rarely see a 158 go further west - it looks like the Carmarthen-Manchester service is 100% 175.

[Jez]

There are still a couple of 158 used on the Carmarthen/Manchester and Cardiff/Holyheads on weekends - not seen any during the week. Maybe some of the 175 are having maintenance work done at the weekend so they are short on units??

Apparently ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) have 27 175, 11 are 2 car, 16 are 3 car. Im guessing the Manchester/Llandudno service needs around 8 diagrams a day which would leave around 19 for use on the South Wales/Manchester/Holyhead services? Or are some allocated for the Birmingham to Holyhead services?

[Mookiemoo]

There are still a couple of 158 used on the Carmarthen/Manchester and Cardiff/Holyheads on weekends - not seen any during the week. Maybe some of the 175 are having maintenance work done at the weekend so they are short on units??

Apparently ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) have 27 175, 11 are 2 car, 16 are 3 car. Im guessing the Manchester/Llandudno service needs around 8 diagrams a day which would leave around 19 for use on the South Wales/Manchester/Holyhead services? Or are some allocated for the Birmingham to Holyhead services?

I might be wrong but I don't think I've ever seen a 175 at new street - I thought all those services ending in birmingham were 158

[Hafren]

It looks like the Birmingham services swap between the Cambrian and Holyhead lines at Birmingham. Cambrian services have to be 158s because of RETB^▸ (Radio Electronic Token Block) (and the new-fangled system), and therefore the Birmingham-Holyheads must be 158s as well. This probably ties down a very large proportion of the fleet, which explains the reduction in the number of 158s going south over the last year, with a few on Cardiff/Maesteg-Chester/Holyhead services.

[Chris from Nailsea]

WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) seems to give preferncial treatment to services that stay in wales. Mainly the services to Holyhead.

Stupid, but true. (why do you think the WAGEX runs to Holyhead when it would make more sense to Manchester)

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

AMs call for urgent upgrade of Welsh rail network

There are new calls for a wide ranging upgrade of Wales's railways, including faster trains, better stations, new carriages and urban light rail systems.
The assembly's enterprise and learning committee says it believes Wales is not getting its fair share of investment and needs to meet a rise in demand.
It said it was concerned passenger satisfaction with stations in Wales was much lower than other parts of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).
The Welsh Assembly Government will study the report before responding.
Official forecasts suggest substantial growth in rail use for both passengers and freight in the coming years.
To meet this demand, the committee makes a number of recommendations.
It said new high speed links are as important to Wales as other areas of the UK, and that both north-south and east-west links need improvement.
Urban light rail systems were also called for, for Cardiff, Newport and Swansea.
The AMs said they were worried to hear that passenger satisfaction with stations in Wales was much lower than the UK average, and want to see immediate action.
Karen Beattie, from Prestatyn, Denbighshire, who campaigns for better access to the rail network for people with disabilities, said there was a desperate need for improvement.
She said: "As I wheelchair user I have to phone up and give 48 hours notice that we going to be using the rail service. The railway station here is inaccessible unless you can use steps and we are in place where there is a Pontin's [holiday park] so the town relies on tourism."
Ms Beatttie said last year one visitor became trapped on the station not realising that she would encounter problems and had to call the emergency services.
She said an identical situation arose in Rhyl, when the station was only accessible by lift during manned hours.
"Information on the website is not always up to date if a station is accessible," she added.
Another proposal is to examine the potential for new light railway systems in urban centres such as Cardiff, Swansea and Newport.
But underlying the report is a concern that Wales is losing out on investment, and the AMs say the assembly government should gain much greater powers over the railways, akin to those held in Scotland.
Committee chairman Gareth Jones said: "This report examines the long-term future of the rail network in Wales. The evidence we have gathered indicates that freight and passenger traffic on our network will increase over the coming years. The objective hopefully will be that Wales benefits from this extra traffic so that we are better placed in terms of high speed link connections with the rest of the UK and Europe. It is important that the Welsh government provides for that extra demand. The Welsh government also needs to work with partners to improve the rail links and services between north and south Wales and to make stations fully accessible to all passengers."
The assembly government said it would study the report and respond in due course.

COMMITTEE RECOMMENDATIONS:

Consideration of urban light railway systems in Cardiff, Swansea and Newport
Electrification of diversionary lines between south Wales and London, the Cardiff area and Valleys lines, and the north Wales mainline
Upgrading the Severn Tunnel
Improved links and services between north and south Wales
The introduction of new rolling stock, particularly on the valleys lines
The devolution of powers and associated specific funding so that Wales can plan and invest directly in future rail infrastructure
Source: Enterprise and learning committee
Click to read: Futuristic transport still on hold

[Jez]

I opted for the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) HST^▸ (High Speed Train) train when I had to make the journey to Cardiff again yesterday. That was fairy busy especially from Bridgend onwards (the 1100 from Bridgend) so yes the ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) trains stand no chance.

Coming home the FGW service was delayed by over half and hour so found myself on the 1604 Milford Haven service, managed to get a seat but by the time the train departed it was full and standing, could hardly get off the train in Port Talbot there were so many people standing by the doors.  It was also a 2 car 158 so I wonder what happened to the 175 that usually does this service? I noticed the 1550 to Manchester was also a 2 car 158, but passed what would form the 1650 in Bridgend and that was a 3 car 175!

[devon_metro]

Fatality in London caused lots of delays to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services.