No Standard Class standees in First Class vestibules.

[whole diary]

[Phil]

Hopefully if they go ahead with the plan to put First Class at the "country end" it'll resolve some of this issue.

[John R]

I believe that first class should be at the country end as was suggested, in order to reduce the endless parade of rucksacks and baby carriages through first class.

Maybe FGW^▸ (First Great Western) should do a survey, if they haven't done already, asking First Class passengers if this is something that they would consider. It would probably cut down on those 'trying it on' sitting in first until they are moved on as it moves the temptation further down the train by which time they would have found a seat in standard. The buffet car also tends to act as a barrier. Seems to work fine on EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) having first at the country end.

They did a survey last autumn, and I'm told the results were inconclusive, so the decision was to retain the status quo.

[mjones]

Hopefully if they go ahead with the plan to put First Class at the "country end" it'll resolve some of this issue.

This would also help at Reading, where westbound trains have first class nearest the station entrance, the overbridge and the Waterloo/Gatwick platforms. I'm often changing from Wokingham trains, and with tight connections I'm afraid if the choice is missing the train or walking through first class then its going to be the latter...

[Btline]

They won't switch the train round. First Class pax haven't paid more to walk further!

At Euston, there are always several members of staff meeting and greeting First Class passengers; although no ticket checks are done at this point, it puts anyone else off.

[inspector_blakey]

I wouldn't be so sure Btline.

It's an oft-forgotten fact that not everyone is travelling to and from London...! Although it may just transfer the perceived problem from Paddington to the western termini (I'm thinking Penzance and Swansea in particular) actually at plenty of stations where access to platforms is somewhere in the middle (just to name a few, Bristol TM^‡(resolve), Cardiff Central and Reading if you use the subway) it won't make much difference to people.

Not sure if this is generally known or not, but FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are just trying to enforce a rule that has been in the book for years, certainly well before the end of BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)), where any part of a first class vehicle is deemed to be first class accommodation (see Condition 39). BR used to tell revenue staff to use discretion in the case of passengers who had boarded at the last minute and were walking through first class on the way to standard. I don't suppose FGW will be any different.

[Mookiemoo]

The worst thing is NOT the standing in FC^‡(resolve).  Its the trailing through.

You get on, yyou find a table and start getting your stuff out, settled.

Except every 30 seconds you get someone trying to push past with a suit case, a buggy etc etc

A few weeks ago I had a stand up argument with a woman and a buggy in the vestibule between the mini buffet and G.  There was no way to get through because her big McClaren double buggy was blocking the way.  She objected when I kneeled on her sprog to get past.

Told her it was her own fecking fault and if she had any consideration for anyone else, she'd have her sprogs neutralised lest they end up like her.

[Tim]

As an occassional first class passenger I really can't see what the fuss is about.  People are only walking through the train for a few minutes, I still get a nice big seat for my extra money. 

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

I'm often changing from Wokingham trains, and with tight connections I'm afraid if the choice is missing the train or walking through first class then its going to be the latter...

I've seen commuters getting off the 1745 ex Padd at Reading and succesfully getting the 1812 Reading-Waterloo! You can't blame them for walking through First Class to save 50 yards of Plaform 4, the next train towards Waterloo is 30 minutes later.

[matt473]

People walking through 1st class is a necessary sadly as this is where the train manager is and this is the only way people can get on close to departure time without opening other doors and potentially delaying departure. On a side not, how is people walking past really going to affect the journey with 1st class passengers walking past anyway so how is standard class people walking past that different or is it just the ticket type they have? (Yes I do travel 1st class as well so am entitled to an opinion and noe people walking past do not bother me)

[John R]

I'd don't have a problem with people walking through out of necessity (eg if it means they would otherwise miss their train), though there are those that do it purely to nick a paper, which does annoy me. 

[thetrout]

As a regular FC^‡(resolve) Traveller, I don't necessary have a problem with people walking through the carriage... however what I do take exception to is when a passenger boards a FC carriage, realises their mistake, walks to standard and mutters about/curses the occupants of FC as they do so... There's simply no need for it...!

As for standing in the vestibules, I do find that mildly irritating because the internal door keeps opening/closing where people are standing on the sensor...!

The other issue I have is when other FC passengers give you the "You shouldn't be in here look"... That is why in some cases I'd rather be ticket checked than not because it removes the smug look they have when the TM^‡(resolve) starts to walk down the train

[Phil]

Yeah, I am with you on all those three as well, trout.

[Rob S]

Travelling 1st Class last week I noticed that the platform staff at Paddington were telling latecomers to get on the train in 1st Class and walk through to Standard as the train was about to leave, even though they still had another 2 minutes until departure....it's not just people being lazy.
As this situation tends to happen only at Paddington perhaps it would be sensible for the Train Manager to stay in the 1st Class area until after the train leaves, and move the Standard in 1st Demons on before they get comfy.

[Btline]

Dear dear. Does it really matter if a few of us riff raff/ plebs walk through First a few minutes before departure?

You've got several hours in a comfy seat and quiet environment with a cup of tea thrown in. Surely you can bear to breath the same air as 2nd class passengers before departure!

If people nick the papers then the Steward should not give them out until the train has left - a la other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company).

[Rob S]

Dear dear. Does it really matter if a few of us riff raff/ plebs walk through First a few minutes before departure?

Not to me it doesn't, I was merely pointing out that platform staff were contributing to the problem that the thread was about by telling people to get on the train in a 1st Class carriage even though there was still plenty of time for them to walk as far as Coach A if need be let alone Coach E. People were queuing up to get on at the nearest 1st class door, then a long string of people the whole length of the carriage as they went along the inside of the carriage when they could easily walk to one of 9 other doors further down the train, which may have been quicker.
 
Personally I don't mind some very late Standard Class passengers walking through if it means the train departs on time but platform staff should also be aware that 1st Class is a premium product, with a premium price and one little perk of it is that those passengers can sit down and flake out in relative peace (in terms of passenger numbers as a bigger wallet doesn't guarantee a smaller mouth!) without a stream of people walking through (even for a few minutes of a 3 hour jouner, it's a first impression to many).