No Standard Class standees in First Class vestibules.

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

I doubt you can be given a Penalty Fare for alighting (or attempting to alight) at a 'pick-up' only station.

From the Penalty Fare Rules:

7.6 An authorised collector must not charge a penalty fare to a person whose ticket is not valid only because of a published restriction, as described in condition 12 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

AFAICS^▸ (As Far As I Can See) the only legitimate 'fine' (for want of a better word) in the case of the 1803 would be to ching the passenger for the full undiscounted Anytime single from Paddington to Taunton.

Logistically this would be a nightmare to do once the passenger has got off at Reading. So, realistically the only ways to enforce the 'pick-up only' are to either do so at Paddington or onboard. Doing so at Paddington would, at the moment, require manual checking of every ticket and turning away all the Reading 'chancers'. This would require each platform at Paddington to be individually and manually barriered. There's no way, with the present set-up, that automatic barriers can be programmed to reject Reading tickets - what if a service due to call at Reading is on an adjacent platform?

Doing so onboard would generate some healthy revenue, but would also generate a sh*tload of negative publicity.

No easy answer......

[super tm]

There was a train many years ago which was pick up only at Reading. There was a problem so to avoid further delay the train went through road non-stop past Reading.  There were a couple of people on the train who sent in a complaint but were told they should not have been there in the first place.

Small chance of such a thing happening again but bit of a risk.  I always tell any pass this story if they ask to get on a pick up only train.

PS The train in question was next stop Taunton.  They got back home a bit late that day.  Dont know if they were charged for their extra journey or not 

[paul7575]

There are tales of BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) putting on reliefs from Reading for those joining the service there, and running the pick up only train non-stop intentionally, without any warning.  I bet that would deter people chancing it once the word went round.

I agree it's a minefield to enforce, and onboard checks are the only real solution.  But what the fare or penalty fare implications are I haven't a clue.  There are other areas where such restrictions are enforced, e.g. WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) trains at Watford Junction. I've been there offpeak and it seems they just man the platform with enough staff to spot those trying to get off (or on in the up direction).

Paul

[ChrisB]

Doing so onboard would generate some healthy revenue, but would also generate a sh*tload of negative publicity.

THe only publicity would be not to board, or pay a record amount for a trip to Reading! The full peak single to Taunton is three figures? You'll only do that once.....

[mjones]

This sort of thing is the kind of Ryan Air anti-customer service attitude that doesn't help the rail industry's image at all. The fare structure and ticketing restrictions are already complicated enough, without having staff spending their time trying to devise cunning traps to impose massive penalty fares for people who ignore what most would regard as a rather bizarre restriction on getting off a train that stops where they are going.

[John R]

It's not bizarre. It's a very sensible attempt to ensure that the train doesn't overfill with passengers for Reading (who could get on a train 5 minutes later) leaving passengers for South Wales/South West etc unable to board and having to wait up to an hour for their next service.

And as trains that are "pick up only" at Reading are not advertised as calling at Reading on the screens at Paddington, then the argument that they got on by mistake is rather weak.   

[mjones]

It's not bizarre. It's a very sensible attempt to ensure that the train doesn't overfill with passengers for Reading (who could get on a train 5 minutes later) leaving passengers for South Wales/South West etc unable to board and having to wait up to an hour for their next service.

And as trains that are "pick up only" at Reading are not advertised as calling at Reading on the screens at Paddington, then the argument that they got on by mistake is rather weak.   

I fully understand the reason for it. I agree it makes sense operationally to discourage people from getting on a train under those circumstances. But I'm talking about customer service, and you aren't going to persuade many customers it is fair to impose very high penalties on people for doing that, which one or two people here seem to be advocating with great relish, or doing stunts like intentionally not stopping, just to catch people out. That is rather petty to say the least.

[ChrisB]

I'm with John R on this one - you appear to be excusing laziness on the part of Reading commuters in not checking whether a train is due to set-down at their stop. They have a train 3 minutes later or 8 minutes earlier.

There won't be 'stunts' as you suggest - what was reported was years ago, and before privatisation. Network Rail would rightly refuse any TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) request now, unless for proper operational reasons.

I'm sure that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will make sure publicity leading up to the TT change will be clear, along with on-train announcements and posters at both Pad and Reading. And I'm sure that the vast majority of Reading pax will adhere to the new restriction.

[mjones]

Is "laziness" something that really deserves a penalty of this severity: "The full peak single to Taunton is three figures? You'll only do that once....."?? Compare and contrast with fines for motoring offences, scarcely proportionate.  This is not something that would be considered fair in terms of natural justice, never mind customer service. There have to be better ways to manage demand.

[Timmer]

Any savvy Reading commuter will know the 18.03 is still a first stop Reading from the Dec tt change. If they choose to ignore the fact that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have made this service pick up only at Reading then they fully deserve to be penalty fared for not observing the reason why its pick up only...to benefit those travelling much further than them.

[broadgage]

Is "laziness" something that really deserves a penalty of this severity: "The full peak single to Taunton is three figures? You'll only do that once....."?? Compare and contrast with fines for motoring offences, scarcely proportionate.  This is not something that would be considered fair in terms of natural justice, never mind customer service. There have to be better ways to manage demand.

Is it that dis-proportionate ?
The fine for driving in a bus lane is now ^120, a broadly similar figure.
Many motoring offences carry fines of ^100.
Repeated motoring offences can lead to loss of the driving licence, repeated payment of penalty fares, excess fares or similar does not bar one from use of the rail network.

[ChrisB]

Indeed - withdrawal of one's season ticket would be excessive....

[broadgage]

Indeed - withdrawal of one's season ticket would be excessive....

For the first offence that is 

[SDS]

Also agree for the first offence withdrawal of a season ticket is excessive.

I believe that this time the RDG^‡(resolve) commuters might take a second look when certain trains on a Friday evening show first stop Swindon on the boards.
Some of them evening peaks are having Didcot withdrawn from the stopping patterns and being replaced with a 'relief' train.

There has also been talk of actively stopping Reading Passengers. But I doubt they will set the barriers to reject them.
It is very easy to set up the barriers to block Reading tickets, spoke to a gateline engineer about it.

[JayMac]

It is very easy to set up the barriers to block Reading tickets, spoke to a gateline engineer about it.

Ahh...... but what about the scenarios where a Reading 'pick-up only' is on Platform 1 or adjacent to a Reading service on other platforms?

I think for an effective block, you are going to need humans. Even then it'll be difficult to police if a 'pick-up only' is platformed next to another service which is calling at Reading.