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Author Topic: On operation of franchises by overseas national rail operators  (Read 7771 times)
bobm
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« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2017, 21:25:39 »

Personally I've always been a big fan of employee ownership - works well for John Lewis and Waitrose, so perhaps it could work for TOC (Train Operating Company)'s? 

I wonder what would be happening on the Brighton line at present if Waitrose were running it and their staff were all partners in the business.

I remember in my youth when Waitrose and other John Lewis stores were closed on a Monday (all major shops were closed on a Sunday back then).  That would be an interesting way to run a railway.  Grin
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grahame
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« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2017, 11:51:39 »

Discussions on this topic are welcome, although any responses from the originator may be delayed until he signs up if indeed he does.

Five days later ... the person who posted originally has not signed up to answer any of the points that have come up as a result of his request to "spread the word", nor been in touch in any way in response to the post or my personal email to him.   

I will admit to feeling a little frustrated when asked to give "air space" to a point of view and to do so, only to find that I'm not even accorded the courtesy of a "thank you", let alone any follow ups  from him on the very valid questions raised by the item he wanted publicising. I do understand it's very easy to overlook / slip up in following up, and the invite to join or feed back is still very much out there.
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« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2017, 12:56:01 »

For those of you who haven't seen, Trenitalia has bought the C2C franchise from NX - http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/passenger/single-view/view/trenitalia-buys-c2c-to-enter-uk-rail-market.html. NX reckon that they are still in the market for UK (United Kingdom) franchises, but seems like a very sensible thing to be stepping away from a franchise that is bursting at the seams.

Whilst writing a post on WNXX (Stored Unserviceable, Mainline Locos HQ All Classes) this made me think though - how much profit do DB» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about)/SNCF (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways)/FS/NS make from retail and real estate development in their domestic markets? I suspect that it's an awful lot more than they get from their UK franchises.
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grahame
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« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2017, 18:29:16 »

From Essex Live

Quote
c2c buyout: Union boss calls foreign ownership of rail companies 'scandal'

The General Secretary of The National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers)) has said foreign ownership of British railways is a "national scandal," following an Italian company's buyout of c2c.

It was announced by National Express on Wednesday (January 11) that they would be selling the rail franchise to Italian company Trenitalia in an estimated £70 million deal, subject to clearance from the Department of Transport.

A study conducted by the RMT has found that 70 per cent of UK (United Kingdom) rail routes are now wholly or partly owned by foreign companies and and General Secretary Mick Cash said privatisation has '"failed" the UK.

"Britain's railways are being sold off to European state-owned outfits with the profits from our fares – amongst the highest in Europe – subsidising operations abroad.‎ Trenitalia is the latest to jump at the chance to fill it's boots on the c2c routes," he said.

1. I'm not clear - is Trenitalia an Italian Company, or the Italian State?

2. Is it our railways being sold off, or franchises to operate trains on the railways which (for the most part) remain owned by Network Rail, which is now a government body.

Posting here as the comments made relate to the general case, although they're triggered by National Express's sale - see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=17870
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ellendune
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« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2017, 18:31:34 »

1. I'm not clear - is Trenitalia an Italian Company, or the Italian State?

It is an Italian company wholly owned by another company which is wholly owned by the Italian state. 
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Timmer
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« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2017, 19:04:23 »

I don't blame NX for getting out of the UK (United Kingdom) rail franchise business. It's becoming clear that some companies are seeing that this is not an industry worth getting involved in caught in between the controlling hand of Dft and the power of the trade unions both fighting for who controls the rail network.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2017, 19:06:36 »

2. Simply franchises. Not anything physical.

The return of around 3% is not commercially interesting to UK (United Kingdom) companies hence the lack of bids!
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Tim
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« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2017, 11:10:24 »

2. Simply franchises. Not anything physical.

The return of around 3% is not commercially interesting to UK (United Kingdom) companies hence the lack of bids!

correct, but it isn't the rate of return per se that is the problem it is the revenue risk that makes it unattractive.

For example, American Express make less than 3% profit on turnover if you calculate their turnover as the total spend on Amex credit cards.  But that is a very attractive market for them to be in.  If Amex spend drops by 5% (say in a recession) they can cope with that because they can scale their cost base back by 5% fairly easily (have 5% fewer people in their call centres to answer 5% fewer customer calls for example). But if the farebox falls by 5%, the ToC still has to hire and run the some number of trains cos it is in their contract and so they go from a 3% profit to a 2% loss.  Now if you are running coaches and the farebox drops by 5% you simply recast the timetable, withdraw unprofitable routes, sell off a few buses, put up fares or whatever your commercial experience tells you is necessary to reduce your costs.  It is easy to see why NX is sees running coaches is more attractive.  You can also see why NX might still see foreign railways attractive because usually their the revenue risk lies elsewhere (the London Overground model). 

A 5% margin would make the franchises more attractive but would cost the tax payer an extra £200 million per year. 
 

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ChrisB
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« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2017, 11:18:12 »

As well - these EU» (European Union - about) firms owned by Governments have *extremely* deep pockets & can take the risk with ease - whereas the UK (United Kingdom) firms don't have big pockets, neither does the 3% margin provide sufficient enticement to find potential funding elsewhere.
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