Rail passengers cut travel costs by ^splitting tickets^

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

From WalesOnline:

Rail firms are being urged to inform passengers of the cheapest possible tickets on offer after it emerged ^split ticketing^ between Swansea and London could cut the cost of the journey by more than ^30.

Consumer researchers at Which? found a same-day, peak fare rail journey from London Paddington to Swansea would cost ^109.50.

However, buying a single from Paddington to Swindon, then another from Swindon to Swansea reduces the overall journey^s cost to ^76.70 ^ a saving of ^32.80.

On certain journeys, researchers found, passengers using split ticketing could end up paying up to 60% less for fares but rail firms don^t advertise split ticketing savings.

Ashwin Kumar, passenger director of the rail watchdog Passenger Focus, says the reason why split ticketing often works out cheaper is because different rail companies set the prices for different parts of the journey. ^If, for example, you are travelling from Carlisle to Manchester, your fare will be set by Virgin Trains ^ simply because they are the lead operator, with the most trains running between Carlisle and Manchester,^ he said. ^But if you split your ticket at Preston, then the first portion of the trip, Carlisle to Preston, is set by Trans Pennine, while the second portion, from Preston to Manchester, is controlled by Northern. The standard off-peak Virgin fare between Carlisle and Manchester is ^41.50. But a single from Carlisle to Preston is ^17.40, while Preston to Manchester is ^9.50, which means you pay a total of ^26.90. This is a saving of ^14.90 ^ or 35%.^

Passenger Focus says although rail firms don^t advertise the fact money can be saved by splitting ticket buying, the practice is perfectly legal.

A spokesman said: ^All you have to do is take the same journey with two tickets instead of one ^ and you don^t have to break your journey at the middle station. The only condition is that the train you take must stop at all the places you have bought tickets for, not just pass through them.^

Yesterday, First Great Western, which operates the Swansea to Paddington route, did not reply after being contacted by the Western Mail.

A spokesman for the Association of Train Operating Companies (Atoc) said it would not be practicable for split ticketing fare savings to be announced. A spokesman said: ^There are 2,514 routes on the rail network, which translates into millions of fare possibilities. We can only quote fares for the specific journey people ask us for.^

At the moment, there is one website ^ splityourticket.co.uk ^ that guides travellers to the cheapest tickets.

Liberal Democrat MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) for Lewes, Norman Baker, the new ^green transport^ minister, has been a long-term campaigner for passengers who complain they are not getting a fair deal on fares.

He said: ^It suits the rail companies quite well for people to buy more expensive tickets than they need to through ticket machines. People need to be able to contact a real human person and if the booking office is closed, my view is these ticket machines should have a telephone there so you can talk to someone who actually exists and advise you what the cheapest fare offer is for your journey.^

However, Andy Wakeford, Atoc^s head of fares, said: ^Machines are not designed for complicated transactions, they are designed to move lots of people quickly. Whether you buy from a machine or from a ticket office, we will sell you the cheapest ticket available for the through route from the station you are travelling from to where you are going to. It is not in our interests to make passengers pay more. Split tickets are being used in a way they were not intended. We actually go further than other industries and allow people to buy and use them if requested, but we won^t go out of our way to encourage passengers to use them in a way that was not intended when there are other good value-for-money fares available.^

Simon Jones, of West Cross, Swansea, an IT consultant who often uses the Swansea to Paddington rail route, said: ^A lot of my journeys are paid for by client companies. I think they would be interested to know the cheapest fares are not being flagged up.^

Just as a matter of interest, what does this mean?

Andy Wakeford, Atoc^s head of fares, said: ^... Split tickets are being used in a way they were not intended. We actually go further than other industries and allow people to buy and use them if requested, but we won^t go out of our way to encourage passengers to use them in a way that was not intended when there are other good value-for-money fares available.^

(my emphasis in bold)


 

[JayMac]

At the moment, there is one website ^ splityourticket.co.uk ^ that guides travellers to the cheapest tickets.

.....which has very few routes covered (certainly not ones covered by the Western Mail's readership area) and doesn't compare like for like. Take their example of Derby to Liverpool - they quote the 'Saver' return, then offer a split using 'Cheap Day' returns. Oh and their fares infromation was last updated in February 2008. All splityourticket.co.uk have achieved is to add further confusion. Worthy idea but FAIL!

[JayMac]

Just as a matter of interest, what does this mean?

Andy Wakeford, Atoc^s head of fares, said: ^... Split tickets are being used in a way they were not intended. We actually go further than other industries and allow people to buy and use them if requested, but we won^t go out of our way to encourage passengers to use them in a way that was not intended when there are other good value-for-money fares available.^

Exactly! Be nice to know what ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) think they are intended for. Any ideas anyone?

[grahame]

Be nice to know what ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) think they are intended for. Any ideas anyone?

I suspect the *intent* was to allow a change of journey plan.   Plan to travel Chippenham -> Didcot, book ticket, find you have to go to London instead, book extra ticket.   OR  Get a Didcot to Chippenham return, start at Didcot but go through to London on your return?

But I read:

but we won^t go out of our way to encourage passengers to use them ... when there are other good value-for-money fares available.^

Hmmm - so does that mean that ATOC will encourage a fare split on Swindon - Salisbury, where a single on the 06:15 direct train is 50 pounds for 40 miles (and a significant saving can be made with a Warminster split), or do they consider the 50 quid to be value for money?   Does anyone have ANY example of ATOC encouraging / publicising splits, or is this final statement just hot air?

[Worcester_Passenger]

From WalesOnline:

Ashwin Kumar, passenger director of the rail watchdog Passenger Focus, says the reason why split ticketing often works out cheaper is because different rail companies set the prices for different parts of the journey. ^If, for example, you are travelling from Carlisle to Manchester, your fare will be set by Virgin Trains ^ simply because they are the lead operator, with the most trains running between Carlisle and Manchester,^ he said. ^But if you split your ticket at Preston, then the first portion of the trip, Carlisle to Preston, is set by Trans Pennine, while the second portion, from Preston to Manchester, is controlled by Northern. The standard off-peak Virgin fare between Carlisle and Manchester is ^41.50. But a single from Carlisle to Preston is ^17.40, while Preston to Manchester is ^9.50, which means you pay a total of ^26.90. This is a saving of ^14.90 ^ or 35%.^

Curious example from Passenger Focus - Virgin Trains don't operate any trains between Carlisle and Manchester. But they still control the fares, for historic reasons.

Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) is showing a Saver Return on any operator as ^47.50 until last weekend - not valid on any train that "departs before 04:15". Difficult to see why anyone would buy an Ordinary Return for ^88.00.

Avantix also has a range of "Virgin only" tickets - for which you presumably have to travel via Crewe.

But no TransPennine-only ones (other than Advance). So I think TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) are missing a trick here in terms of gaining more of the revenue.

[onthecushions]

If you want to go Paddington - Swansea with two tickets (say using Swindon) you would normally have to use a train which actually stops there. If you got on a first stop Bristol Parkway service, you might be in for a debate with a hard-hatted gentleperson. The same is also true for Zone 6 add-ons.

What do today's RP staff think?

This isn't new. In 1970, I used to have to travel Leeds - Liverpool on two day returns (using Manchester) because the former ER didn't issue CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day'))'s only OR's, to LMR destinations! In those pre-APTIS^▸ (All Purpose Ticket Issuing System) days one had to go through the barrier usually to re-book, or go to an accredited travel agent for manual tickets, before travelling.

OTC

[JayMac]

If you want to go Paddington - Swansea with two tickets (say using Swindon) you would normally have to use a train which actually stops there.

Erm..... That's all of 'em!

[Ollie]

Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) also has a range of "Virgin only" tickets - for which you presumably have to travel via Crewe.

But no TransPennine-only ones (other than Advance). So I think TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) are missing a trick here in terms of gaining more of the revenue.

The Virgin only ones are advance as well..

[readytostart]

Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) is showing a Saver Return on any operator as ^47.50 until last weekend - not valid on any train that "departs before 04:15". Difficult to see why anyone would buy an Ordinary Return for ^88.00.

I doubt anyone would out of an informed choice, though people may go to a TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) and ignore the off-peak option as in their mind they are travelling in rush hour. It also gives the option of an on board 'penalty' where those travelling without tickets could, under the NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) be charged the anytime fare.

[super tm]

Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) also has a range of "Virgin only" tickets - for which you presumably have to travel via Crewe.

But no TransPennine-only ones (other than Advance). So I think TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) are missing a trick here in terms of gaining more of the revenue.

The Virgin only ones are advance as well..

Just to add that as TPE set the fare for this route they cannot issue walk up tickets routed TPE only. 

[Worcester_Passenger]

Just to add that as TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) set the fare for this route they cannot issue walk up tickets routed TPE only. 

But surely Virgin set the fares?

[JayMac]

Carlisle to Manchester walk-up fares are set by Virgin as they are the lead operator over the majority of the route. Crewe to Manchester 'ANY PERMITTED' is set by Northern with Virgin offering cheaper "VIRGIN TRNSONLY" on most walk-up ticket types.

Trans-Pennine could, if they wanted, offer cheaper walk-up, "TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) TRNSONLY" fares between Carlisle and Manchester, but don't at present. They do offer Advance fares on that route which are generally cheaper than the Virgin Advances. 

[XPT]

If you want to go Paddington - Swansea with two tickets (say using Swindon) you would normally have to use a train which actually stops there. If you got on a first stop Bristol Parkway service, you might be in for a debate with a hard-hatted gentleperson. The same is also true for Zone 6 add-ons.

Are there any trains now that are actually timetabled London Paddington to Bristol Parkway non-stop though?   They all stop at Swindon enroute.

Unless you were just using the above as a general example of you having to travel on services where the trains stop at the split ticket point.

[Brucey]

Something that the article fails to mention is that the full ticket allows other routes to be taken.

One of these allows you to travel through Westbury, Salisbury, Woking, Wimbledon, Clapham Junction to either Waterloo or Victoria.

Some people may actually find this route useful, especially if they wish to break their journey en-route.

I don't think TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) should be forced to point out split ticketing as it would then involve identifying possible routes and making the passenger choose a route, which could cause delays at the ticket office.  However, something I'd like to see is TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) being able to sell ticket to/from anywhere, i.e. so you can buy tickets from somewhere other than the station where the machine is located.

[paul7575]

However, something I'd like to see is TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) being able to sell ticket to/from anywhere, i.e. so you can buy tickets from somewhere other than the station where the machine is located.

As regularly pointed out, that would be wonderful news for 'dumbelling' fraud you can be pretty sure it won't ever happen...

Paul