South Wales local services - Pembroke, Fishguard, Swanline, etc.

[whole diary]

[Jez]

It is a very good in depth article, answers a lot of queries about ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) diagrams. Interesting to note a few things;

The overnight fishguard/0436 Swansea-Shrewsbury/0900 Shrewsbury-Cardiff/1514 Cardiff-Swansea/1710 Swansea-Cardiff diagram is now booked as a 150 whilst a 153 is covering on the Cardiff Bay line. I never knew it was officially booked as a 150 at the moment. But does explain why a 150 is often the 1710 Swanline since the Sept timetable changes.

Also it confirmed a 150 is booked on conwy valley all year now, not just summer as in previous times, whilst Crewe-Shrewsbury local is a 153 all year. And HOW is booked as 153s apart from the 0436 off Swansea/0900 off Shrewsbury at the moment whilst the 121 is out.

It says that most Maestegs are booked 150s now but still some 158s.

Also interesting to note that ATW use their most comfortable and "best" trains wherever possible, so on Sundays when there are less services overall compaired to Monday-Saturdays tehy used 175s and 158s as much as they do on Monday-saturdays whilst only 10% of pacers are used on Sundays compaired to a lot more during the week/saturdays.

Well worth a read IMO^▸ (in my opinion).

[TonyK]

Does anyone know how the new station at Fishguard is doing?  Are the additional trains being used enough?

According to the Fishguard Trains website, it's not seen massive numbers yet.

Yyyyes - but the latest post / comment that I can spot on that page is coming up for 4 months old - any more recent reports?  This is the timing phase where it's critical, if the service that's been gained and retained, to keep the interest up.

The Fishguard Trains website hasn't seen massive numbers, either.

[Jez]

Yesterday a 150 was on one of the Manchester diagrams - 0630 from Manchester-Milford etc. I assume this was on the diagram all day and didnt get swapped at all? I got on in Neath heading towards Swansea and it was standing room only and several passengers were annoyed about the silliness of providing a 2 car train on a busy Saturday in the lead up to Christmas! Perhaps they need to be made aware this one is booked for a 2 car!

I have noticed on the Heart of Wales there has been a 150 on the last one down from Shrewbury quite a lot recently, which then forms the last Swansea at 2232 (2220 on Saturdays) whilst the one that ends up as the 1710 Swanline now seems to be a 153 quite a lot again.

[John R]

Yesterday a 150 was on one of the Manchester diagrams - 0630 from Manchester-Milford etc. I assume this was on the diagram all day and didnt get swapped at all? I got on in Neath heading towards Swansea and it was standing room only and several passengers were annoyed about the silliness of providing a 2 car train on a busy Saturday in the lead up to Christmas! Perhaps they need to be made aware this one is booked for a 2 car!

I wouldn't expect ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) to be considering the traffic flow over a short 13 minute hop when determining what stock to put on a service travelling for around 5 hours. (And if they had done they would probably have taken into consideration the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) that was booked to precede it by 12 minutes.)

Besides, there was an international on in Cardiff, and I would have expected the planners to be trying to provide the optimal capacity into Cardiff. This service was too early into Cardiff, and the return from Milford too late, to meet that demand, so I expect it was downgraded so that more capacity could be provided into Cardiff around lunchtime.

[Jez]

Yesterday a 150 was on one of the Manchester diagrams - 0630 from Manchester-Milford etc. I assume this was on the diagram all day and didnt get swapped at all? I got on in Neath heading towards Swansea and it was standing room only and several passengers were annoyed about the silliness of providing a 2 car train on a busy Saturday in the lead up to Christmas! Perhaps they need to be made aware this one is booked for a 2 car!

I wouldn't expect ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) to be considering the traffic flow over a short 13 minute hop when determining what stock to put on a service travelling for around 5 hours. (And if they had done they would probably have taken into consideration the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) that was booked to precede it by 12 minutes.)

Besides, there was an international on in Cardiff, and I would have expected the planners to be trying to provide the optimal capacity into Cardiff. This service was too early into Cardiff, and the return from Milford too late, to meet that demand, so I expect it was downgraded so that more capacity could be provided into Cardiff around lunchtime.

The train was already very busy with many people standing before Neath, I expect from Cardiff it had been busy. Ive a feeling the HST might have been late as on arrival at Swansea there was no sign of a HST on any platform. I didnt notice the departure boards at Neath but the Milford Service itself was around 5 mins late.

I think more likely a 158 wasnt available (or whatever diagram it was on the previous day was a 150 also) so a 150 was just the replacement. Dont think the international in Cardiff would have had an baring on it at all. Its not the first time by far a 150 has been on a Manchester-West Wales service.  As I said passengers were complaining how ridiculous such a small train was on a busy route on a Saturday, however as I said its booked as a 2 car. I just think for such a long journey (6 hours+ Manchester-Milford) a 158 is much more suitable than a 150 in terms of comfort and space for luggage etc. 

Regarding the trains heading Cardiff way seemed to be the usual 175s formed of 2 or 3 cars, no sign of much strengthing of services. Also I dont know what the logic was in having both the 1200 (Manchester) and 1205 (Cardiff Central) both stopping at Swanline stations, 5 mins apart! I think the gap before that was from 0910 as im not sure if the usual 1110 ran or was put back to 1205.

[John R]

If it ran in front of a late running HST^▸ (High Speed Train) then it's hardly surprising that it was standing room only. Assuming westbound services were still running via Box yesterday because of the landslip at Westerleigh then the HST certainly wouldn't have been on time.

[Jez]

Ive been trying to work out the diagrams for the 3 ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) 158's that work in South Wales Monday-Friday.

I understand one is kept overnight at Cardiff, one at Carmarthen and one comes down as the 05xx Chester-Maesteg and another one then returns as an evening Cardiff-Chester service.

From my understanding the one that starts in Carmarthen does;

05xx Carmarthen-Pembroke
0709 Pembroke-Cardiff Central (arriving 10xx)
Then I guess either Ebbw Vale or Maesteg before being send back to Chester as the 20xx from Cardiff?

The one stabled overnight at Cardiff I guess would do;

Cardiff-Cheltenham Spa
Cheltenham Spa - Maesteg
then 1217 Maesteg- Gloucester
1434 Gloucester-Fishguard Harbour
Then works local Fishguard Service to Clabeston Road and then ends up at Carmarthen overnight.

The Third one would be 05xx Chester-Maesteg and I guess works either Maesteg local services to Cardiff and/or Cheltenham or Ebbw Vale services for the day before staying overnight in Cardiff.

Anyone got full diagrams? Thye would be interesting to see. I think these are the only booked 158s Monday-Friday, not sure if they do them on Saturday as well as I know an extra 158 is booked for the 0630 Manchester-Milford etc. 

[anthony215]

I am sure the 08:00 Maesteg - Cheltenham Spa & 10:45 Cheltenham Spa - Maesteg services are booked for a 158 which is normally the case but occasionally a 150 turns up.

[phile]

Carmarthen stabler = 11 35, 14 35 & 17 35 Cardiff to Ebbw Vale then 20 17 Cardiff to Manchester & + Crewe.
The Gloucester to Fishguard start 06 12 Cardiff to Cheltenham.
The 05 15 from Chester works Maestegs, 13 35 Cardiff to Ebbw Vale then back to Maesteg 16 18 ex Cardiff

08 00 ex Maesteg is booked 150

[Jez]

Thanks Phile. 

I took a trip on the HOW line today, 153 in both directions (1316 ex Swansea and 1405 ex Shrewsbury, I only went so far) which is what is booked. Train wasnt that busy in either direction, not even half full so it definately doesnt need more than 1 car. I noticed a 150 on one of the Pembroke Dock diagrams today and the daytime swanline (0914 and 1314 Cardiff-Swansea and 1110 and 1510 Swansea Cardiff then Abergavenny) which is usually a pacer on a Saturday was also a 150 today. 

[Jez]

Interesting combination on the 19xx Carmarthen-Cardiff (which does Pembroke Dock journey early in the day) it was a 150 and 2x153s. I wonder why they had so many sets to send back to Cardiff?

[animationmilo]

Interesting combination on the 19xx Carmarthen-Cardiff (which does Pembroke Dock journey early in the day) it was a 150 and 2x153s. I wonder why they had so many sets to send back to Cardiff?

Engineering work yesterday would explain things, the 18:59 Carmarthen to Cardiff traces back to the 05:50 Pembroke Dock.

[phile]

Interesting combination on the 19xx Carmarthen-Cardiff (which does Pembroke Dock journey early in the day) it was a 150 and 2x153s. I wonder why they had so many sets to send back to Cardiff?

Engineering work yesterday would explain things, the 18:59 Carmarthen to Cardiff traces back to the 05:50 Pembroke Dock.

Weekend Engineering work would have no effect on this at this time of the day.   Usually when there is Engineering Work on the Sunday, diagrams are adjusted on the Saturday to have right sets in position the other side for start of play on the Monday.
West Wales services were disrupted due to a freight train failure on the Marches resulting in some trains not running through or restarting Cardiff with "scratch" units so anything could have happened.

[Jez]

That explains it then. It just seemed odd as normally that service is run by a single 153.

Am I right in thinking the overnight fishguard is formed of 2x 153s, both off a pembroke Dock diagram the previous day whilst the third pembroke diagram goes back tp Cardiff on the 19xx off Carmarthen?

Then of the 2 x 153s on overnight fishguard one does the 0436 HOW and the other the 5.50 Pembroke and both end up back at Cardiff the next night.

Do 2 x 153s get stabled at Hereford overnight in order to form the early Hereford-Cardiff-Pembroke/Fishguard service? If so do they run empty or form a service up the evening before?

I just seen a 150 pass on the first Swansea-Manchester service (approx 0705 off Swansea) which should form the 1130 back from Manchester unless its swapped at Cardiff. I guess this is due to a 150 being in Carmarthen overnight in place of a 175 due to yesterdays problems. It would have been better to send the 150 on the first Carmarthen-Swansea-Swanline rather than to Manchester. Unless as I said they swap it at Cardiff if there is a 175 available.

[anthony215]

The units which work the 05:35 Hereford - Cardiff - Pembroke Dock/Fishguard service work the 00:30 Cardiff - Hereford service a few hours previously.