Excess fares queue at Reading train station?

[whole diary]

[Glovidge]

Apologies if I've posted in the wrong bit but on Monday at approx 08:40 there was a a fairly long queue at the excess fares point (I got on at Winnersh Triangle at 08:30ish) and had no time to stop at the ticket office there due to the heavy road traffic on the way in.

This excess fares queue and the queue at the ticket office could have culminated in me being unable to pick up my advance ticket from the ticket office (as the chip in my cashcard had stopped scanning!) for the 09:10 to Swansea service from Reading.

Huffing and puffing at the lack of queue movement for about 10 minutes I decided I would plead my case to an RPA at the barrier as I was worried I would miss my train. Not only was there no RPA, all the barriers were actually open. At 08:50!?! On a Monday morning. Great revenue generating there FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

[inspector_blakey]

Well, the textbook answer here is that you left yourself open to a penalty fare by boarding at Winnersh Triangle without a ticket when the ticket office was open - as has been discussed elsewhere in the penalty fares thread, it's your responsibility to leave enough time to buy a ticket for your journey (after all, you can hardly blame FGW^▸ (First Great Western) for their being heavy traffic during morning rush hour). I think had the barrier been closed and had you encountered an RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) you'd be GBP20.00 worse off.

Just out of interest, why didn't you book an advance ticket from Winnersh rather than Reading? It may well have been the same price, or only very slightly more expensive, and saved you the hassle at Reading as well as meaning you wouldn't have needed a Winnersh-Reading ticket.

[Glovidge]

Duly noted  My original journey was going to be Theale (around 08:56 service I think) to South Wales however due to the traffic and my cashcard probem (I was in a car) I was worried I would miss the connecting train from Theale to get my 09:10 train.

I often get dropped off at various connecting stations around Reading to get this 09:10 service and usually have time to get a ticket for the first local leg of the journey at the ticket offices (namely either Earley, Reading or Winnersh Triangle btwI don't think that I should have to have full rigidity in my travel plans for the first leg of my journey considering tickets are usually ^1.80 to ^2.60 dependant on where I embark from.)

My intention was to explain at the ticket office at Theale about my predicament with the machine not scanning my cashcard and then get my advance ticket issued there along with my fare into Reading.

I understand a Monday morning with people wanting to get weekly/ seasonal fares etc is always going to be busy hence my change in my travel plans to get there. (08:30 from Winnersh T) But I don't expect to have to wait 25to 30 minutes to get a ^1.80 ticket. Let alone risk missing the 09:10 service I had paid for.

Why can't there be more dedicated RPAs on say Platfrom 4a/4b for example for the South West train services? Maybe there are and I missed them?

Surely people who get on at unmanned stations (if there are any at that time going into Reading) are in a similar situation every morning at rush hour and to put one person at the excess fares windows is not great thinking. And then to open the barriers....

The barriers were also open last Friday at Reading at approx 3pm... it just doesn't seem like great revenue protection to me

[amiddl]

My original journey was going to be Theale (around 08:56 service I think)

Rather bizarely I missed the 08.56 service from Theale to Reading today by seconds (I ended up on the 9.10).

[Glovidge]

Yesterday at lunchtime quite a substantial queue at the excess fares window. (For a lunchtime) Fortunately I was travelling from Slough so all I can say is sort it out ffs

[grahame]

The problem of long queues at the excess ticket window isn't unique to Reading.   I've queued for half an hour at Paddington (ticket machine out of order, Hungerford.  Train Manager's machine also out of order). Then the other morning I was on a 125 Bristol and the Train Manager apologised for the lack of ticket sales at Keynsham, suggesting that people might like to buy from him.  Now - I suspect that not everyone found him in the (what?) 10 minutes run, and I suspect they were kept waiting for rather more time than they had been on the train ...



Is there a policy of underproviding staff for excess fare collection - perhaps in order to encourage people to buy tickets before departure?  I have no objection if there is ... but if there is, then First should really take steps to ensure that people aren't penalised for their own failure to provide facilities on departure.  I understand that a car driver's time in a queue is worth 44p per minute, and train travellers are no different - so if I had to wait for 15 minutes in that queue, wouldn't I have been justified in asking for 6.60 off my fare from Keynsham?

[JayMac]

A recent trip to Waterloo via Salisbury from Patchway saw me get as far as Andover before I was able to purchase my ticket on train.

There was no ticket buying opportunity before Bristol TM^‡(resolve) as the guard didn't get to me. Then, following a staff change at Bristol TM the incoming guard made an announcement that he had no ticket issuing facilities and would be unable to sell tickets, find train times or even do a ticket check. Quite why he couldn't do the ticket check I don't know.*

Changing at Salisbury should've been an opportunity for me to buy a ticket, but we were 5 late leaving me 8 minutes. One look at the queues at both the windows and machines and the horror stories I've heard about barrier staff kept me rail-side. But turning round and heading back to the platforms attracted the attention of a gateline staffer who called me back. Ignored him and waited for the hand on the shoulder from an RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)), but guess there were none at Salisbury that morning as nobody followed me!

Located the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) guard on the arrival of the WAT service, quick explanation and she was happy to sell me my tickets.

Ok, not an issue with Excess Fares windows but illustrative of the problems faced with buying tickets when beginning a journey at a station with no (or no working) ticket buying facilities.


*Actually, I do know. This particular guard is downright lazy - I've seen him at work across the Bristol area and he appears to like hiding in the rear cab, only appearing to do the doors. Having no Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) was extra convenient.

[Ollie]

Yesterday at lunchtime quite a substantial queue at the excess fares window. (For a lunchtime) Fortunately I was travelling from Slough so all I can say is sort it out ffs

I think you need to chill out a bit. As you say it didn't really concern you as you didn't have to use it.

The thing with the excess window at Reading is most are pretty genuine, just got off of the train from Bedwyn or something and couldn't get a ticket, and sometimes others are people taking a risk, and either not knowing the barriers are there, or hoping they would be open as they sometimes are during the day.

[Glovidge]

I am chilled man,the doc gave me me more valium got a bit of Bob Marley on now and the Dutch are in the World Cup final. Chilled to the max. I'm so chilled I'm like Vanilla Ice.

I'm sure the excess fares queue is genuine but what happens if you're in a hurry for an important appointment or to collect an advance ticket past the barriers or well whatever really. Why should passengers have to put up with a delay to their journey that could eb solved by either the TM^‡(resolve)/ guards going round the train between stations (admittedly difficult on certain local stopping services) providing ticketing machines prior to the barrier (issue of honesty perhaps but still) and maybe putting more staff at the excess fares point. At peak times.
I was going to suggest Birmingham New Street has a good system but then I remember they actually don't!

[Henry]

You will be able to purchase a ticket with cash, cheque and most credit and debit cards. A list of accepted cards will be displayed clearly at each ticket office window. Ticket office opening hours will be displayed at each station along with alternative methods to purchase a ticket. When purchasing a ticket from our ticket offices you should not have to queue for more than 5 minutes during peak periods, and no more than 3 minutes outside of peak periods. (Peak periods are busier periods of the day when customers are travelling to and from work, e.g. between 0700 and 0900.) Regular checks will be carried out to ensure that these standards are consistently met and any shortfall rectified.

 Taken from the passenger's charter, so the 'text book answer' is - at no time should you have to queue for  more than 5 minutes.

 As a regular customer I make allowances for 'operational difficulties' when buying a ticket, but the level of staffing in
 some Devon ticket offices has become poor. You wonder as a business, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would make it easier for the 'customer' to
 give them money. What annoys me is that these are not recent problems, but some I would suggest, we have had for
 years.

[LiskeardRich]

You will be able to purchase a ticket with cash, cheque and most credit and debit cards. A list of accepted cards will be displayed clearly at each ticket office window. Ticket office opening hours will be displayed at each station along with alternative methods to purchase a ticket. When purchasing a ticket from our ticket offices you should not have to queue for more than 5 minutes during peak periods, and no more than 3 minutes outside of peak periods. (Peak periods are busier periods of the day when customers are travelling to and from work, e.g. between 0700 and 0900.) Regular checks will be carried out to ensure that these standards are consistently met and any shortfall rectified.

 Taken from the passenger's charter, so the 'text book answer' is - at no time should you have to queue for  more than 5 minutes.

 As a regular customer I make allowances for 'operational difficulties' when buying a ticket, but the level of staffing in
 some Devon ticket offices has become poor. You wonder as a business, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would make it easier for the 'customer' to
 give them money. What annoys me is that these are not recent problems, but some I would suggest, we have had for
 years.

take a photo of the station clock in the background, with the queue visible at two points showing the same people still queueing more than 5 mins later, if you then got issued a penalty fare you have evidence that FGW have breached their contract to you (the passenger charter) and there fore the penalty fare would be overturned on appeal, and if it wasnt then it would be thrown out of court with costs given to you! if a service breaches their contractual agreement, you are surely entitled to a refund, or compensation, if more people knew this then i think there would be some high profile court action against some TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company)

[Tim]

AIUI^▸ (as I understand it), the passengers Charter is a set of aspirations, not part of a contract between the passenger and TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)

[ChrisB]

yup, that's correct.

[JayMac]

AIUI^▸ (as I understand it), the passengers Charter is a set of aspirations, not part of a contract between the passenger and TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)

FGWs^▸ (First Great Western) Passenger Charter is tiltled, "Your rights Our promises".

A promise is a lot more than an aspiration.

[inspector_blakey]

FGWs^▸ (First Great Western) Passenger Charter is tiltled, "Your rights Our promises".

A promise is a lot more than an aspiration.

I think we're playing with semantics here. Good luck getting that one to stick in court.