Confusion when trying to book Bristol-Bromsgrove return tickets online

[whole diary]

[XPT]

To get the cheapest possible tickets to Birmingham, I am trying to book Bristol-Bromsgrove return tickets via Worcester.  Yet why when I put these details in the train booking websites do I get bizzarre journey results such as via Birmingham, Smethwick Galton Bridge, and Worcester - and via Newport and Hereford to get to Bromsgrove??   Yet there is a train that departs Bristol at 0841, arrived at Worcester at Worcester Foregate Street at 1017.  From there is a 1022 service onto Bromsgrove and Birmingham.  Why is this itinerary not showing up on the train booking websites when searching for Bristol-Bromsgrove journeys at these times?

[inspector_blakey]

Because the minimum time for an official connection at Foregate Street is 7 minutes, not the standard 5 minutes.

[XPT]

Yes I guess so.  I guess that's understandable.   Though it's probably rare that you'll miss the connection as the train from Bristol usually arrives on time with no delays, and you get 5 minutes to get to the opposite platform.   For someone less able on their feet though it could be a bit of a challenge.

So if I book one of the via Newport and Hereford journeys as listed and select no reservations required, do I have to travel via Newport and Hereford?   Will it state on the ticket something like "route: via Newport Hereford"?  Or am I free to still travel via Cheltenham and Worcester?

Incidentally if you don't put in via Worcester when searching from Bristol-Bromsgrove tickets(on FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s website at least) it then comes up with no tickets available!  So if someone was to try purchasing Bristol-Bromsgrove return tickets from a ticket machine, it could well say the same thing.

Usually when travelling to Birmingham(or beyond) I split at Worcester or Cheltenham.  Never tried splitting at Bromsgrove before, which brings the journey price down to a very reasonable ^15.60 return.  FAR more attractive and easier on the wallet than the stupid price of ^42 Bristol-Birmingham day return.

This leads me onto another question.  Why is there hardly any direct services between Cheltenham and Bromsgrove? I think it's something like just one service per day in each direction!  Did there used to be more frequent services years ago?

[inspector_blakey]

There appear to be two groups of tickets available in Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) - route "ANY PERMITTED" and route "NOT BIRMINGHAM". Looks like the cheaper tickets you're talking about are the "NOT BIRMINGHAM" group, which I assume means that you could legitimately travel via Worcester.

With the very important exception of Advance tickets, you don't have to travel on a particular train if you have a seat reservation for it: you can use an anytime/off-peak/super off-peak ticket on any train for which it is valid even if you have reserved a different one.

Does seem like a lot of faffing around for a relatively small saving over the Cheltenham split though, or are you after some new track?

[XPT]

No I have done this route before a number of times, but through splitting tickets at Worcester.

It's more than a small saving on the Cheltenham split though.  Splitting at Cheltenham comes to ^26.60.   It is though just a small(^1.80) saving over the Worcester split which is ^17.40.  But every little helps!

[JayMac]

I often use the split point of Bromsgrove for a Bristol-Brum day return. I also take the 0841 from BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) and connect onto the 1023 from WOF-BHM. It's actually 6 minutes for the change - still annoying if the incoming FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is delayed. Hour wait for the next train to Bromsgrove and no delay compo as the connection is 1 minute shy of the official connection time. Only happened once in the past year that I missed the 1023 to Brum via Bromsgrove. Worse places to kill an hour than Worcester though.

Advantage of splitting the Off Peak Day Return (CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day'))) at Bromsgrove rather than Worcester, besides price, is that you can return from Brum on the 1730 or 1830 CrossCountry Cardiff bound services and change at Cheltenham.

Split your BRI-BHM CDR at Cheltenham and you are on a CrossCountry priced CDR from Cheltenham meaning no return between 1530-1815.

[Worcester_Passenger]

Advantage of splitting the Off Peak Day Return (CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day'))) at Bromsgrove rather than Worcester, besides price, is that you can return from Brum on the 1730 or 1830 CrossCountry Cardiff bound services and change at Cheltenham.

Split your BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)-BHM CDR at Cheltenham and you are on a CrossCountry priced CDR from Cheltenham meaning no return between 1530-1815.

Be aware of the fact that London Midland have now blocked CDR tickets from B'ham to Bromsgrove (and Worcester) between 16:29 and 18:00 (ah, the consistent definition of peaks between TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company)!). But the standard day return isn't that much more expensive.

From Worcester, there's a simpler solution about using peak-hour trains : book to Aston. Same price, no restriction.

[JayMac]

Ah. Good spot W_P. One of the restriction changes in Jan 2010 (NFM^▸ (National Fares Manual) 05) that I missed. Hadn't checked, yet luckily got away with a couple of journeys from New Street on the 1730 CrossCountry earlier in the year. I know ignorance is no defence.......

Because of your advice, I went looking for alternatives to Birmingham New Street from Bromsgrove to get around the evening restrictions on the CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) and my second choice of Smethwick Galton Bridge came up trumps. CDR is ^4.80, you can travel short to/from New Street and no restriction in the evening. Another 20p saved. Yay!!!!

So now.....

Bristol - Bromsgrove CDR ^10.60
Bromsgrove - Smethwick GB^▸ (Great Britain) CDR ^4.80
Total: ^15.40

..... with return still possible on the 1730 or 1830 CrossCountry services to Cheltenham.

And if you need or want to arrive in Brum before 0900 on a day return from Bristol then you can split at Cheltenham and Bromsgrove and catch the 0721 or 0757 CrossCountry from Cheltenham. Only 20 minutes longer than the through trains.....

Bristol - Cheltenham SDR ^13.40
Cheltenham - Bromsgrove SDR ^9.60
Bromsgrove - Birmingham NS SDR ^5.80
Total: ^28.80

..... and a massive saving on the through fare if you asked at Temple Meads for a day return from Bristol to Birmingham to arrive before 0900. You'd be sold a SOR at ^80!!

[Worcester_Passenger]

Well done for the cunning extension to Smethwick GB^▸ (Great Britain). And there's quite a difference between ^80 and ^28.80.

This leads me onto another question.  Why is there hardly any direct services between Cheltenham and Bromsgrove? I think it's something like just one service per day in each direction!  Did there used to be more frequent services years ago?

Meanwhile, in response to XPT's second question, back in Central Trains days in Summer 1997, there were departures from Cheltenham to Bromsgrove at 07:15, 10:08, 12:01, 14:08, 18:20 and 20:19, returning at 07:54, 10:06, 12:03, 14:20, 16:19, 18:21 and 22:00.

The timetable pattern in those days was two two-hourly services between Cardiff and B'ham, one operated by Central (through to Nottingham) and one by Wales and West. Not especially-well integrated northbound, but southbound they gave nearly-hourly departures from B'ham.

But the logic about the intermediate stops was good. The Central ones came round through Worcester (and stopped at Bromsgrove), while Wales and West ran fast up the main line (and didn't). But the Wales and West ones did the intermediate stops between Newport and Gloucester while Central ran non-stop. That way you balance the running times.

As for XPT's first question, "why?", it's to do with handing the whole of the Cardiff - Nottingham to CrossCountry, and with giving FGW^▸ (First Great Western) the Bristol - Worcester - Malvern corridor (which used to be very very poor indeed - just 1 southbound and 2 n'bound per day).

I still think that you could run an alternating two-hourly pattern on this corridor, which could coordinate with the two-hourly Bristol - Worcester. The Swiss, the Dutch, or the old Southern Region would do it that way. They'd want to rebuild Cheltenham station, but that's another story.

[XPT]

I often use the split point of Bromsgrove for a Bristol-Brum day return. I also take the 0841 from BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) and connect onto the 1023 from WOF-BHM. It's actually 6 minutes for the change - still annoying if the incoming FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is delayed. Hour wait for the next train to Bromsgrove and no delay compo as the connection is 1 minute shy of the official connection time. Only happened once in the past year that I missed the 1023 to Brum via Bromsgrove. Worse places to kill an hour than Worcester though.

Advantage of splitting the Off Peak Day Return (CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day'))) at Bromsgrove rather than Worcester, besides price, is that you can return from Brum on the 1730 or 1830 CrossCountry Cardiff bound services and change at Cheltenham.

Yes that would be a bit annoying if you miss the 1023 service at Worcester and then have to wait an hour. Could be a nuisance if you're booked for onward travel beyond Birmingham, or if that delay of one hour getting into Birmingham would spoil your planned day a little.  Advantage of splitting at Worcester though is that if the service from Bristol is a bit delayed and you know you're going to miss the connecting 1023 service, you can get out at Shrub Hill instead.  And catch the 1047 service to Birmingham Snow Hill.   Meaning not such a long wait.    Also sometimes I've just about been able to rush to the opposite platform at Foregate Street and catch the 1016 service to Snow Hill.  So you get flexibility to catch either services.   

So whether you choose to split at Bromsgrove or Worcester each have their pro's and cons.   But they do both offer GOOD value return fares to Birmingham, unlike the ridiculously overpriced standard(without splitting tickets) fares of ^42 or ^80 on the direct route with Arriva Cross Country.   

Cheers for the tips mentioned.