North Devon Rail Users Group AGM

[whole diary]

[TerminalJunkie]

The North Devon Rail Users Group (NDRUG^▸ (North Devon Rail Users Group)) will be holding their AGM^▸ (Annual General Meeting) at the Imperial Hotel, Barnstaple next Friday evening, 12 October.

After the formal business, the meeting is to be addressed by John Curley, the newly appointed Director responsible for the western part of First Great Western^s operations.

Other speakers include Mike Greedy, Passenger Link Manager of Passenger Focus (the national rail passenger watchdog), and Richard Burningham, Manager of the Devon & Cornwall Rail Partnership.

Issues we expect to be addressed include the lack of sufficient morning trains from Barnstaple, which have resulted in overcrowding (against a background of a record number of passengers) and also the type of trains to be used on the Tarka^▸ (Line from Barnstaple to Exeter) Line in the future.  We will also be pressing home our dissatisfaction about the two, two-week line closures each year for maintenance.

^This is a very important meeting from our point of view.  We are pleased that the newly appointed First Great Western Director will be addressing the meeting and, just as importantly, answering members^ questions and concerns.  It is only fair to add, however, that there have been a number of good points, in particular the ambience and environment of the stations along the line.^

[TerminalJunkie]

John Curley (Rail Director (West) spoke at the AGM^▸ (Annual General Meeting). A summary of what he said appears below.

Disclaimer I was sat at the back and may not have heard everything: any mistakes are therefore my fault, but not my responsibility!

"We have clearly failed to deliver"

He apologised for their poor customer service, and the poor punctuality and reliability of their services.

Senior managers were now trying to turn things around. In the past they had acted as arrogant managers of HST^▸ (High Speed Train) services who thought that running rural lines would be easy. The centralisation of management was not helping, and that more decision making would be devolved back to local management.

They were now going to focus on their customers and stakeholders. This started with the management reshuffle which brought in Andrew Haines as COO, and the three route directors who would focus on the core elements of their business, namely London commuter, High speed, and rural services.

They are trying to align staff terms and conditions to increase flexibility (for example, Wessex train crew are still on different t&cs to HST crew; in an ideal world the ex-Wessex staff should be able to undertake HST duties and vice-versa, although he said this wouldn't happen overnight.)

There has been too much directing from Swindon, and not enough listening to local staff and customers: he acknowledged that local staff understood the service patterns and loadings of their services much better than Swindon, and he wanted to tap into this knowledge in future.

He also said that they made a mess of moving their maintenance from Cardiff to Bristol, and made mistakes predicting the amount of rolling stock they would need, and failed to acquire replacements when they realised the mistake.

He thought they had four key challenges for the future.

1) Need to engage stakeholders: they intend to talk to communities and understand local issues. JCs appointment meant that Julian Crow now had a director-level sponsor/supporter.

2) Delivery - "a decent railway, well-run": The Fleet Director is now a DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) man, reflecting that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) now realise that DMUs are important. Money is going into the Bristol DMU depot, and there is to be a carriage washer installed at Exeter. Staffing levels may need adjusting; the distribution of train crews is right for the old service pattern, but has not been changed with the new timetables. May also introduce mobile cleaners on some local routes; trains are cleaned before entering service (hmmm...), but full of litter by mid-afternoon.

3) Produce proper plans: up to now FGW had just been ticking the boxes of their franchise commitments. With little or no thought to managing growth or responding to customer needs and desires. They had to stop whinging and start moving forward.

4) Sort out the rolling stock: they want to keep five 158s, but by the time they realised this either DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) or FGW had taken their eyes off the ball and other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) grabbed them (this was the only time he mentioned DfT). He did say that they had acquired the 'most reliable' of the 142s available.

Tarka^▸ (Line from Barnstaple to Exeter) Line Timetable:
December 2007 would be virtually unchanged. From May 2008 there will be an additional Mon-Sat train - 0940 from Barnstaple - and they are looking at the possibility of an 1140 as well, although that's by no means certain. They will also look again at providing a standard-hour timetable around Exeter with a Devon Metro (which is exactly what Wessex called it in 2003...)

Other Rolling Stock Issues:
The 180s are to be phased out, as they are simply too expensive to run. They expect more 150s to become available in a couple of years, plus other units should become available once the 1300 new carriages start to be introduced at other TOCs. At the moments FGW are trying to procude a coherent view of what's needed in the South West so they can presents a robust case once the cascades start. The Pacers will be centered on Exmouth, Barnstaple and Paignton, although some peak services will be operated by 150/153/158s when they are available. Most Exmouth services will be doubled up.

There were a couple of questions at the end about the new high-density seating on HSTs (which took up an inordinate amount of time, especially considering they have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the Tarka line...)


John Curley was, at least, honest about FGWs failings. The bit about about 'arrogant HST managers' was a bit odd though, since they haven't exactly covered themselves with glory on that part of their business, either...

The most disappointing bit was the delay in introducing the additional service until May: we had been getting regular hints that it would be appearing - on Saturdays at least - from this December.

[grahame]

Many thanks for that feedback.   I have yet to see John Curley speak so the report is especially appreciated.   I may quote parts onto other sections (unless you would rather I didn't) as subjects like the 180s (Adelantes) are of general interest.

You mention Julian Crow .... it so happens that I was in the audince of a meeting he addressed yesterday; I'm just about to write up my notes on that and I'll try and keep them as concise and easy to read as your notes 

[Shazz]

I still dont see why they dont loose a coach off adelantes (first class or buffet?)

and run them on the portsmouth > cardiff route

thus freeing up several 158's for use elsewhere

[grahame]

I still dont see why they dont loose a coach off adelantes (first class or buffet?)

and run them on the portsmouth > cardiff route

thus freeing up several 158's for use elsewhere

The answer I have been given is "it would cost 15 million pounds a year and we wouldn't get that back"

[grahame]

Following up on TerminalJunkie ... the full report on Julian Crow's speech is at:

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=790.0

And here are the Devon Details:

Torbay. Extra Arriva X country service will help. JC didn't say much about Torbay in this branch review - "not a branch"

Exmouth. Extra morning peak service provided on a commercial bases. Platform extensions from 3 to 4 cocahes; Devon county helpin with the funding.

Barnstaple.  Has shown a 35% growth of traffic in a year.  Extra round trip to be added in May.  Note - day return reduced from 10 pound to 7.50 may have been a contributor.

(Much more on the link I have given above)

[Shazz]

I still dont see why they dont loose a coach off adelantes (first class or buffet?)

and run them on the portsmouth > cardiff route

thus freeing up several 158's for use elsewhere

The answer I have been given is "it would cost 15 million pounds a year and we wouldn't get that back"

It's one of the fastest growing routes they have, i could personally see them raking it in...

it would also make the dft happy to an extent

...but anyway, back on topic!

[TerminalJunkie]

I may quote parts onto other sections (unless you would rather I didn't)

Go for it

[TerminalJunkie]

I still dont see why they dont loose a coach off adelantes (first class or buffet?)

and run them on the portsmouth > cardiff route

thus freeing up several 158's for use elsewhere

The answer I have been given is "it would cost 15 million pounds a year and we wouldn't get that back"

It's apparently not just the price: Tony Miles had this to say about the 180s on the uk.railway newsgroup earlier today:

You do wonder how much effort FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have put in to resolving the problems with the 180 fleet over the last 18 months, as they were not in the new franchise plans, other than as short-term cover whilst the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) fleet was expanded and refurbished.

Plenty of effort but the design is flawed (see one of my first columns for Modern Railways back some years ago when I quoted Alstom as admitting serious errors in the design of the 175s and 180s). The skirts deaden engine noise but the heat build up inside is massive. There is hot air rising from hot bits onto bits that should be cold - excuse the non-tech stuff but I'm too tired to look it up! - several parts of the drive chain were never tested together but brought together "on paper" from successful Alstom trains elsewhere in the world - and Alstom admitted to me they don't all really like being together.

There are other problems like windscreens cracking, the hatches jamming or breaking when something bigger than a sparrow hits them, exhaust "pipes" running too close behind panels and heating them to dangerous temperatures etc. etc.

It isn't just FGW that think they are less than reliable - its an industry thing. Angel offered them to NX for the East Coast "York stoppers" etc. in preference to the 90+Mk3 trains NX announced. Not only did Angel want a LOT more money for them than the loco/coaches option but NX didn't want to take the risk with something so unreliable. It's a view also given out by other operators that have been offered the 180s, and even other FG TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) who have been offered them. Both TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) and FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect) basically told Angel where to "store" their 180s according to senior managers.

Other points made here about mistakes made at FGW are relevant - but I'm certain that FGW has done its best with the 180s - with little help from Alstom...

(AND I got the impression that at least one bidder for CrossCountry - not First - looked at the 180s as an option for adding capacity and then also dropped the idea after looking more at the fleet... hard to see anybody taking them unless, as TOCs have told Angel, they drop the price considerably)

[vacman]

A shame really as they're pretty comfortable trains.

[martyjon]

Who is this John Curly. Is he one of those reputedly brought in from FTP^▸ (File Transfer Protocol).

WHY has it taken FGW^▸ (First Great Western) nearly 1 year to admit they failed the travelling public, when the travelling public were telling FGW this even before last Decembers TT was a week old.

It must be the arrogance that they have finally admitted to and not a moment too soon.

[paulsouthwales]

the new barnstaple dec 07 tt is online now.  any major changes?!  and why publish this two weeks after the other drafts?

also why still drafts?  the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) tt has been online on nationalrail.co.uk for about five weeks now!  so why still draft!! ??

[TerminalJunkie]

the new barnstaple dec 07 tt is online now.  any major changes?!

Not really, just small - and sometimes irritating - ones:

• 0704 from Barnstaple to be 0700
• 1040 from Barnstaple to be 1029, and terminates at Central instead of Exmouth
• Two extra calls at Morchard Road (1344 to Barnstaple and 1505 to Exeter)
• Extra stop at Kings Nympton (1404 to Barnstaple)
• 1805 from Barnstaple now takes 80 minutes to St Davids, compared with the 67 minutes of the current 1806.

also why still drafts?  the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) tt has been online on nationalrail.co.uk for about five weeks now!  so why still draft!! ??

Possibly because there appear to be mistakes in it: the 0700 from Barnstaple gets 14 minutes from Newton St Cyres to Exeter St Davids (Crediton to Exeter is normally 10-12), then gets just one minute to climb the hill to Central!

[gaf71]

WHY has it taken FGW^▸ (First Great Western) nearly 1 year to admit they failed the travelling public, when the travelling public were telling FGW this even before last Decembers TT was a week old.

Believe me their local staff were trying to tell them as well!


Edit to adjust quote tags - Graham

[devon_metro]

the new barnstaple dec 07 tt is online now.  any major changes?!

Not really, just small - and sometimes irritating - ones:

• 0704 from Barnstaple to be 0700
• 1040 from Barnstaple to be 1029, and terminates at Central instead of Exmouth
• Two extra calls at Morchard Road (1344 to Barnstaple and 1505 to Exeter)
• Extra stop at Kings Nympton (1404 to Barnstaple)
• 1805 from Barnstaple now takes 80 minutes to St Davids, compared with the 67 minutes of the current 1806.

also why still drafts?  the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) tt has been online on nationalrail.co.uk for about five weeks now!  so why still draft!! ??

Possibly because there appear to be mistakes in it: the 0700 from Barnstaple gets 14 minutes from Newton St Cyres to Exeter St Davids (Crediton to Exeter is normally 10-12), then gets just one minute to climb the hill to Central!

It may have to wait to cross Cowley Bridge Jn