Can you get a refund if.....

[whole diary]

[Mookiemoo]

To be honest I won't be applying for one - was more curiosity since it really did depend on where you boarded - which sortbof invalidates the airline argument

To be fair - because I was working I had one little old lady sit opposite me who fell asleep but I did feel for some of the others who got a walking party join them

[JayMac]

......I did feel for some of the others who got a walking party join them

Best not upgrade next Saturday then! 

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

what would happen if i paid full price for a first class ticket and then first class was packed out by people using weekend first to upgrade on the cheap? 

[smokey]

what would happen if i paid full price for a first class ticket and then first class was packed out by people using weekend first to upgrade on the cheap? 

In Inter-City days weekend first was limited to Coach F & G, coach H remained Full first class only.

[brompton rail]

I think this still is the case on East Coast. Is it on FGW^▸ (First Great Western)?
On XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) you are all stuck in the one First Class Coach!

You don't get a refund if you have First Class ticket and there are no First Class seats!

[Ollie]

I think this still is the case on East Coast. Is it on FGW^▸ (First Great Western)?
On XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) you are all stuck in the one First Class Coach!

You don't get a refund if you have First Class ticket and there are no First Class seats!

Somewhere in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage is a bit about travelling in Standard with a First Class ticket, you should get the difference back - if first class should have been available.

However if you are in the First Class carriage but with no seat then there is no difference back.

[Brucey]

Somewhere in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage is a bit about travelling in Standard with a First Class ticket, you should get the difference back - if first class should have been available.

Condition 38

38. Travelling in standard class accommodation with a first class ticket
If you have a first class ticket (or the equivalent) and the first class accommodation (or the
equivalent) shown in the National Rail timetable is not available on any train you travel in,
you may claim a refund of the difference in price between the first class and the standard
class ticket for the relevant part of your journey.

I'm not quite sure how you would prove which train you travelled in (especially where several different operators serve one route), unless your ticket has been stamped.  However some operators only punch a hole (e.g. Southern) or scribble a line through the date (e.g. SWT^▸ (South West Trains)).

[brompton rail]

Well, I guess you would be well advised to ask the TM^‡(resolve)/ conductor to endorse your ticket.

[super tm]

I think this still is the case on East Coast. Is it on FGW^▸ (First Great Western)?
On XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) you are all stuck in the one First Class Coach!

You don't get a refund if you have First Class ticket and there are no First Class seats!

Yes you do.  If you have a first class ticket but there are no first class seats you may claim a refund of the difference in price between a standard class ticket and a first class ticket fro the journey you are making.  Probably helps to ask the TM^‡(resolve) to endorse the ticket.

Useful bit of information to know.  Certainly helps to calm some people down who have paid for first class and cant get a seat.  It is a pretty rare occurance though.  The 1548 Pad to Cheltenham Spa when it was a 180 was always overfull in 1st on fridays.

[Mookiemoo]

......I did feel for some of the others who got a walking party join them

Best not upgrade next Saturday then! 

Didnt mean that sort of walking party

I meant a party that happened to be walking rather than static

[readytostart]

Usual endorsement I make is 'Passenger travelled standard between xxx and xxx'  and re stamp ticket, or write new one if ticket is of the type with adverts on the back and no room for endorsement.
Should be pointed out that there is a difference between on-train staff upgrading passengers (ie wheel chair space in STD in use so putting another wheelchair (and those travelling with them) in first) and a full declassification where anyone can sit in first class.
Personally, on the few occasions I have declassified then I have spoken to everyone with first class tickets (including upgrades) and given out endorsed compo forms and prepaid envelopes. I acknowledge this isn't as easy with 3-4 coaches of first when the TM^‡(resolve) office is the other end of the train.

[JayMac]

Nice to see the responses from train staff, super tm and readytostart, showing good examples of a common sense approach, regardless of whether the rules mean they have to endorse tickets.

You are a credit to the industry. I hope you don't get grief from management when you decide to de-classify.