Shocking lack of Rover knowledge!

[whole diary]

[Btline]

I had to buy a Severn Solent Rover on the train recently, as the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) ticket office at WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) was closed.

Out of the three FGW^▸ (First Great Western) guards on the journey, only one had heard of such a Rover (despite being in FGW publicity and on the website) and none of them were able to find it on the machine to sell to me, as they didn't know the code or something. I purchased it at the end of my journey at an open ticket office (no problems!). Although what would have happened if RPIs^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) had been at my destination...? Of course I could have been dishonest and travelled for several days "trying" to buy the rover on the train!

But for the rest of the time I was travelling on the Rover none of the FGW (and SN/SWT^▸ (South West Trains)) guards batted an eyelid at the Rover. I find it very hard to believe that on the first day I happened upon the only 2 guards not to have heard of the Rover! So surely an eyebrow should have been raised - the ticket just said "FOSS^▸ (Freedom of Severn & Solent Rover)" (=Freedom of Severn & Solent) which could have easily been Scotland or the South, etc!

Only one guard (FGW) filled in the date box, meaning I could have many more days of free travel if I wanted!

At ticket barriers, again, no eyelid batted by staff (I decided not to risk putting it through the machine), it was the normal - yes he's got a orange piece of paper, I'll let him through - approach (even at quiet times).

So a little disappointing. Why have FGW (and SWT/SN etc.) not trained their staff about Rovers? Never had a problem with them in Scotland (where guards and barrier staff fill in the date boxes). Same in Wales, although I've had a guard who couldn't sell me a Rover - luckily a fellow passenger knew the code. I didn't realise I had to look up the codes for a ticket before I travelled!

Ok, this is very negative (sorry) so I would like to point out that I'm not moaning at the staff, they were all as helpful as possible and at no point tried to charge me for a single, but at the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company).

[paul7575]

Only one guard (FGW^▸ (First Great Western)) filled in the date box, meaning I could have many more days of free travel if I wanted!

So a little disappointing. Why have FGW (and SWT^▸ (South West Trains)/SN etc.) not trained their staff about Rovers? Never had a problem with them in Scotland (where guards and barrier staff fill in the date boxes).
 

Er...  I'm pretty sure that on a 4 from 8 (or whatever), YOU are supposed to fill in the date box yourself before you join the first train, but it's probably in the instructions they give you at the ticket office. It's on the website anyway:

Dates of travel on Rover tickets need to be marked with an 'x' in the appropriate box on the ticket before travelling on that day.

In answer to why guards aren't familiar, I'd suggest it's just that the vast majority are actually sold in ticket offices.  Most of the SWT area isn't coveredby Rovers at all - except for the all line...

Paul

[devon_metro]

It's your responsibility to fill in the boxes. Technically it's invalid if they aren't filled in.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

gotta be honest i have joined at wimple before and asked for a devon ranger and he 'couldn't' issue me one... its in a pf zone i was lucky as the self serve does not issue them

[Btline]

Whoops, I didn't know I had to, was not told to at the ticket office. I will do in future.

But why did only one guard notice my ticket was technically invalid?

[Chris from Nailsea]

It may be that 'guards' are not familiar with such relatively 'unusual' (but perfectly valid!) tickets or passes?

I attended the 'Heart of Wessex' community rail partnership meeting in Yeovil, about a month ago - for which, I was provided with a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) travel warrant, for my rail journey from Nailsea and back.

Before setting out, I dutifully scratched off the necessary silver coverings on the 'date of travel' section, filled in my personal details in the hand-written section, and sealed the clear plastic film down over the card, as instructed on the back of the warrant.

On my journey to Yeovil Pen Mill, my 'ticket' was checked three times:

On the journey from NLS to BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains), the train manager looked surprised, when presented with my 'ticket', saying that he'd "never seen one of those before" - but he thanked me for scratching off the dates of travel, as instructed.

On the journey between BRI and Westbury, another train manager inspected my ticket in detail - in fact, he studiously read all of the front page, and all of the back page of instructions, as he'd "not seen one of those before"!

The third time my ticket was checked was between Westbury and Yeovil - but by that time, a group of four of us had met up, and upon all four of us producing our similar 'tickets', the train manager merely grinned an acknowledgement - and moved on down the carriage.

CfN. 

[JayMac]

I've had two of those 'scratchcard' tickets in the past. Complementary 1st Class ones.

I dutifully did what was requested to validate the ticket, but I still got quizzical looks from onboard staff. One Customer Host even asked the group sat in 'Management Corner'* whether I was entitled to complementary refreshments with these tickets. I had to point out that I'd been sent them by the Customer Service Director (James Burt at the time) following a complaint about a 1st Class journey.

The group of managers were noticeably quieter with their work talk after they heard me mention where I'd got the ticket from!

Back to the OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter); whilst on-train sales of Rovers and Rangers may be rare I do think staff should be trained in how to issue them and not leave the passenger to go out of their way to obtain one. The potential for problems should an RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) be encountered is also a very real concern.

*Bay of 4 nearest the buffet, coach F.

[chrisoates]

Similar experience with 'Cornwall day ranger' & 'Ride Cornwall'.

I bought them regularly and noted down their codes as nobody could ever find them on Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains).
I also found out how to get 'Ride Cornwall' issued on a First bus (F3 menu).

The Day ranger can be rail carded too.

[Brucey]

If the guard doesn't know how to issue a rover, they should be instructed to choose "Rover Enquiry" from the main menu.  They then need to type in part of the name and select the correct rover.  Sale then goes through as normal, with railcard discounts applied on the next screen.  Can't see how a guard would not know how to do this?  Surely it is part of their training?

[eightf48544]

I think you are being a little unfair on the guards it's the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company)' through ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) fault for allowing the fares system to get in such a mess.

It seems to me totally unreasonable to expect ordinary rail staff to fully understand the National Fares Manual let alone the passengers.

Judging by the number of queries on Coffee Shop where even the experts disagree on what fare is valid for what journey shows what a mess we are in.

One thing that seesm to cause the problem to my mind is that the TOCs are trying airline demand management for trains. It doesn't work because.

Airlines usually only have one or two flights a day with basically fixed capacity (althought they do overbook). Depending on predicted overall demand for that route. They also drop routes or flights if they prove unprofitable.

Rail have many trains (3 an hour Manchester London) with much grrater capacity than their number of seats. They are also restricted in the trains they can drop from the timetable so most trains have to run.

Most people plan their flights several months ahead, rail journies are more spontaneous. Much demand Season Tickets, business travel is inelastic in the time they wish to travel (peak). Off peak travel is much more elastic.

With a plane you can therectically issue a ticket if there's a seat up to closeure of the boarding gate. This would be very difficult to do on rail if you wanted to guarentee a seat reservation. Which is why anytime fares an anomaly, you pay the highest fare for the flexibilty of travelling on any train but forego a seat which you could have reserved for probably a third or less of the price with an advanced ticket for a specific train.

Any thoughts of a suitable model for train fare pricing which is simple has minimum restrictions and is easy to understand for staff and passengers.

 

[Super Guard]

If the guard doesn't know how to issue a rover, they should be instructed to choose "Rover Enquiry" from the main menu.  They then need to type in part of the name and select the correct rover.  Sale then goes through as normal, with railcard discounts applied on the next screen.  Can't see how a guard would not know how to do this?  Surely it is part of their training?

It is part of the training, but just because something is called "Freedom of abc rover" does not mean it's entered into the Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) system as that... e.g. "FOABC" instead.  Perhaps a list of known rover codes for the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) area would be a good idea.

[Btline]

The guards I encountered could only find Freedom of Scotland, Wales, South Wales, A, AB and ABC. What the last three are I do not know (and neither did they!).

[Super Guard]

I'm sure if you type Freedom into Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) it lists those you've mentioned, but there is a Freedom of SW or similar and I was sat in the messroom at BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) listening to guard trying to find it after being asked for it, and he could only find it under "FOSW^▸ (Freedom of (the) South West Rover)" or something similar.  Trust me, some guards do their best to find out after the right answers after, even if it doesn't help you at the time.

[grahame]

I'm not sure if it's still as bad ... but at one time, the National Rail website rover page was arranged alphabetically by tickets so ...
"Freedom of Devon" would have been on the "F" page
"West Country Rover" would have been on the "W" page
"Devon Ranger" would have been on the "D" page
and so on.

If the staff have to have an encyclopedic knowledge of the official names of all the tickets (and their abbreviations too!) , then I have every sympathy with them.

[Tim]

Surely the swanky new ticket machines could be easily programmed to make finding the rovers reasonably easy for even the most inexpereinced staff? 

Again, eveidence that on-train staff are poorly managed.