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Author Topic: Rail Routeing Guide  (Read 6853 times)
JayMac
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« on: September 03, 2010, 15:14:02 »

That fiendishly complex set of documents, the National Routeing Guide, has been updated. There are some quite substantial changes apparently....

Which is fupping annoying as I was just beginning to get a handle on it.  Shocked Tongue

Ho, hum. For those that take an interest in this sort of thing, the updated pages can be found here:

http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-settlement-plan/routeing-guide

Just don't go asking me for a tutorial!
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 15:26:55 by bignosemac » Logged

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Worcester_Passenger
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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2010, 15:30:57 »

Thanks for the link. A fine example of how not to do things. I particularly like the 1143-page .PDF file (the 'yellow pages') which contains the routings themselves.
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JayMac
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« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2010, 15:43:21 »

I've been using this set of documents for nigh on two years now and I still have to read through the instructions every time I use them.

Still, if it wasn't for them I wouldn't have found out how to get to Hereford from Bristol for ^7 (railcard) day return!  Wink
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devon_metro
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« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2010, 16:35:05 »

Isn't it about time ATOC» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) designed something that when you type in origin then destination, lists all valid routes in map form.
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Brucey
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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2010, 16:35:34 »

At least they haven't changed the list of easements Cheesy
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« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2010, 21:17:42 »

At least they haven't changed the list of easements Cheesy
Ah yes, 22 pages of PDF, with no index whatsoever.
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Worcester_Passenger
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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2010, 22:01:31 »

Nobody at ATOC» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) has actually read this document.

At one stage, I was going to include the explanation of what each easement means, but I think it's more amusing if you look yourselves!

Easement 24. Your starter for 0 : is there any other way of achieving this?

Easement 36. Presumably except on Saturdays in one direction?

Easement 41. Wessex? Wales & Borders? Who are they?

I do hope that we get round to testing easement 62 soon.

Easement 81 is very kind, given what the train does. From personal observation, there's no much to do at Georgemas Junction while the train goes to Thurso and back. Not that there's much to do at Wick once you get there.

97 : for "may" read "have to"

106 : What does this mean?

10008 : How?

10013 : Can now be safely deleted from the list!

The 30xxx group of easements (who "numbered" this lot?) have some very peculiar routes. How else could you make the journeys in 30003, 30005, 30020, 30022, 30031, 30046, 30056?

What's the difference between 30057 and 30058?

30064 can also be safely deleted.

30072 is rather wild!

Easement 30075. Your starter for 400 : what does this mean, and to what journeys does it apply?

30097 : ah yes, but what does it apply to?

At this point I gave up!
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2010, 22:33:05 »

Easement #26:

Quote
Customers travelling from Micklefield, Garforth, East Garforth, and Cross Gates to or from London, route YORK, may travel either route YORK or route LEEDS. Route ANY PERMITTED only allows travel via LEEDS.

But of course!

Seriously, does anyone at ATOC» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) towers actually think about how utterly stupid rubrics like that are going to appear to people who look at the Routeing Guide after they make it publicly available? Do they just assume that no-one can be bothered to read it? Or is there someone in the office with a wicked sense of humour who writes garbage like that just to see if they can get away with it? It's almost as if Kafka has been resurrected and got himself a gig working for ATOC!  Roll Eyes

What's even more troubling is that I found that little gem within about 5 seconds of skimming the document. Given how close to the top of the list it is, I shudder to think how many more horrors like that one lurk within.
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grahame
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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2010, 23:11:30 »

82 Journeys via Swindon and Didcot or via Swindon to Didcot and routed Not London may double back between Reading and Didcot. This easements applies in both directions.

THAT is an interesting one.   There are often higher fares on journeys like Oxford to Bath via Reading than via Didcot.  Am I reading that you are allowed to buy an Oxford to Bath via Didcot ticket, and use it via Reading anyway?

30020 Journeys from Moreton in Marsh, Kingham, Shipton, Ascott under Wychwood, Charlbury, Finstock, Combe and Hanborough to Reading and beyond may travel via Oxford. This easement applies in both direction.

And how would you do that journey WITHOUT travelling via Oxford?   Change at Shrub Hill, Cheltenham and Swindon , perhaps?

300364 Customers travelling from Evesham and Pershore via Swindon may not travel via Worcester Shrub Hill. This easement applies in both directions.

That looks like a hardening, not an easing to me!

Ooh - a local one for me ...

30114 Journeys from Melksham via Bedwyn may travel via Westbury. This easement applies in both directions.

... but what does it mean?
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2010, 23:25:08 »

82 Journeys via Swindon and Didcot or via Swindon to Didcot and routed Not London may double back between Reading and Didcot. This easements applies in both directions.

THAT is an interesting one.   There are often higher fares on journeys like Oxford to Bath via Reading than via Didcot.  Am I reading that you are allowed to buy an Oxford to Bath via Didcot ticket, and use it via Reading anyway?

No - the cheaper tickets are specifically routed "not Reading", which is explicitly printed on them. What I don't understand is why there is an easement covering the more expensive tickets - they're routed "not London" and that's also printed on the ticket. Travelling via Reading, fairly obviously, doesn't contravene the route "not London"! I suppose it's because one of the fundamental tenets of the Routeing Guide is that in general you shouldn't double back through the same station, and taking the route via Reading means you double back through Cholsey/Pangbourne/Goring& Streatley/Tilehurst.

It's a pet peeve of mine that FGW (First Great Western) has always been hugely inconsistent with allowing you to use diverted London - Bristol services from Oxford or Didcot via Reading and the B&H (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury) when there's engineering work on the main line. Sometimes it's fine, but more often they expect you to fork out for the "not London"
ticket or spend an eternity messing about changing from train to bus to train again.

30020 Journeys from Moreton in Marsh, Kingham, Shipton, Ascott under Wychwood, Charlbury, Finstock, Combe and Hanborough to Reading and beyond may travel via Oxford. This easement applies in both direction.

And how would you do that journey WITHOUT travelling via Oxford?   Change at Shrub Hill, Cheltenham and Swindon , perhaps?

I assume so. Why you would is another matter. May be that the algorithm in the routeing guide somehow makes the direct route "not permitted" so they have to add an easement, although that's only a guess...

300364 Customers travelling from Evesham and Pershore via Swindon may not travel via Worcester Shrub Hill. This easement applies in both directions.

That looks like a hardening, not an easing to me!

Yep, there are several "hardenings" in there that are most certainly not easements!

30114 Journeys from Melksham via Bedwyn may travel via Westbury. This easement applies in both directions.

... but what does it mean?

I have no idea. There are a few of them that apparently make no sense and are just permitting travel by the obvious route. Maybe that means that you can travel via Westbury if you want rather than going round via Chippenham and Reading, allowing you to make the most of your extensive local train service Wink There's another one I really can't figure out either, #70000:

Quote
Customers travelling from Keynsham via Westbury may also travel via Bath Spa. This easement applies in both directions.

Going from Keynsham to Wesbury avoiding Bath Spa takes you all the way round via Taunton then back up...what on Earth does that easement mean? The journey planner will often give you journeys from, say, Oxford to Keynsham that take you through to Temple Meads and then double back, so that's evidently permitted by the Routeing Guide... This is making my brain ache.

vacman, Donkey Guard, readytostart, super tm, can any of you help us out with these or are they as much of a mystery to staff as they are to the punters?!
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 23:36:57 by inspector_blakey » Logged
Worcester_Passenger
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2010, 23:42:45 »

vacman, Donkey Guard, readytostart, super tm, can any of you help us out with these or are they as much of a mystery to staff as they are to the punters?!

My betting is that the only person who understands some of these is (a) the person who wrote it, but couldn't express it properly and (b) retired a long time ago.
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Brucey
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« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2010, 07:37:20 »

Isn't it about time ATOC» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) designed something that when you type in origin then destination, lists all valid routes in map form.
Given the way the documents are formatted, I can't see it would be too difficult for someone to embed them into a program so that the software looks up group stations and permitted routes.  Wouldn't take more than a few hours for someone with a small amount of programming knowledge to do this.
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2010, 17:30:02 »

They have, in effect. It's called the National Rail online journey planner... Wink
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Trowres
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« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2010, 22:48:00 »

Would someone please figure out why the NR» (Network Rail - home page) OJP (Online Journey Planner) will provide a through fare from Bradford on Avon to Leeds via Manchester Piccadilly, but insists that more than one ticket is necessary for a journey from Trowbridge to Leeds via Manchester Piccadilly?

In both cases the OJP routes via BRI» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains).
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JayMac
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« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2010, 22:58:45 »

Can't really comment on your search as I do not know what search parameters you were using. I've just searched BOA and TRO» (Trowbridge - next trains) to MAN on Monday 6th September and it gives up through fares (Advance, Anytime, Off Peak, First Class) throughout the day.
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