Restriction on fully open ticket.

[whole diary]

[vacman]

I agree with vacman - I think that's the answer.  There, that's the remaining 1%!

CfN.  

That's the Issue as I understand it FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have banned carrying Mobility Scooters But XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) and other TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s will carry them.

This should be sorted out by ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here).

They're not banned, but must be collapsed and loaded into the gurds van by the user or their carer, most of these scooters are too heavy for the ramps and therfore the TOC's that do take them risk being heavilly sued if anything happens!

[Mookiemoo]

Where do you wish to put them on a HST^▸ (High Speed Train)

Can you even get through the door?  Would you be willing to sit in the luggage/guards van

and no, I'm not being confrontational .............. my mother is disabled so I ,know what its like to travel being disabled but dis-abled means LESS ABLED  you cannot expect to do everything you want to do when you want

In 8 years of FC^‡(resolve) FGW^▸ (First Great Western) travel I have seen 1 disabled FC pax  but there is a space there just in case

[paul7575]

You cannot lay this at ATOCs^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) door, I'd suggest.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are 35 year old, XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise))'s Voyager's conform to a totally different set of accessibility standards.  But even the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) that do accept mobility scooters have to have some sort of size/weight limit.  I suppose that could be standardised, but only as required to fit the RVAR compatible rolling stock, no greater.

Paul

[readytostart]

XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) policy on wheelchairs and mobility scooters from the DPPP^» (Disabled People's Protection Policy - see here):

All our trains can carry manual or powered wheelchairs, but these need to be within the following dimensional and weight limitations:
Summary of wheelchair accomodation limitations
Dimension   Value
Width   700 millimetres
Length (including footplates)   1200 millimetres
Height (including customer)   1350 millimetres
Weight (including customer)   300 kilograms
Unfortunately many of the larger powered scooters cannot be conveyed on CrossCountry due to their weight, dimensions and manoeuvrability. However users of models with a small triangular footprint may be able to obtain access. You should seek advice from the JourneyCare reservation service. Users with models which can be folded down into lightweight manageable components may take their scooter onto the train as luggage. Customers or a travelling companion will need to be able to carry the folded scooter on or off the train.

[paul7575]

Seems to me a fundamental question needs to asked when people buy mobility scooters - 'Will you ever want to take this on a train?' 

Nearly all the debates I've seen in various forums about 'wheelchair bans' seem to end up actually involving large scooters.

Paul

[Tim]

Surprised you can get a scooter on a Voyagers.  there is seldom room for standing passengers. 

The "scooter bans" seem to me to be reasonable.  Either it is because the doors are too small, there is no space or because access involves using a ramp which is too steep (most scooters are not safe on more tha a 5% slope as stated in their instruction booklet)

Disabled access should be about making an effort to accomodate people, not any vehicle that they may choose to use. Able-bodied people face restrictions on what they can carry on board (limits on bikes, large cases etc) which are imposed fopr very similar reasons of safety and practicality.     

AIUI^▸ (as I understand it), everyone who uses a scooter could use an electric wheelchair or a smaller scooter.  Not ATOCs^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) fault if the customer chooses to buy the "wrong scooter". 
 

[inspector_blakey]

This should be sorted out by ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here).

I'm trying to think of a precedent for ATOC sorting out an issue and failing...

[vacman]

Where do you wish to put them on a HST^▸ (High Speed Train)

Can you even get through the door?  Would you be willing to sit in the luggage/guards van

Passengers are not allowed to travel in the guards van, basicly scooters must be folded and taken as luggage.

[smokey]

Lets have comments please.

This is how I understand things are.

Let's say I go to Derby Station make all arrangements to Travel 2 days later, on the 08.28 XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) from Derby to Exeter St David arr 11.46 then transfer with asssistance to the 12.09 Exeter to Bodmin Parkway due 13.48

I've paid ^70.30 for a Railcard discount open ticket, however on my journey West, at Exeter I'm not allowed to board the 12.09 but am put on the 12.45 to Plymouth arr 13.43

I can't then leave Plymouth untill 19.00 arriving Bodmin at 19.35 almost 6hours late.

What is my SIN?

Going back to my original post. I never said I'd made this journey!
I'd become aware of a passenger being sent a long distance by Taxi with his Mobility Scooter (paid for by FGW^▸ (First Great Western)) after being carried by both XC & FGW services down into the west somewhere.

(S)HE couldn't make his return journey because the Station Staff RIGHTLY pointed out that such scooters are not carried. (unless folded, and that customer was Unable to stand unaided let along take a Scooter to bits.)

OK, I understand that Wheelchairs & Electric Wheelchairs (up to a Size limit) ARE carried by all TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s but there NEEDS to be a clear ALL TOC Ruling on Mobility Scooters, and yes if they have to be folded put in the Brake Van FINE, but how many Mobility Scooter uses are capable of doing that!

[matt473]

OK, I understand that Wheelchairs & Electric Wheelchairs (up to a Size limit) ARE carried by all TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s but there NEEDS to be a clear ALL TOC Ruling on Mobility Scooters, and yes if they have to be folded put in the Brake Van FINE, but how many Mobility Scooter uses are capable of doing that!

Simples answer really. If the disabled person had of phoned ahead to make advance arrangements, then a member of staff could have been prepared with a wheelchair to aid them onto and off the service so that the mobility scooter could be folded away and stored appropriately. I admit this is not the most fair and conveniant of situations but at least there are things in place to cater for such problems IF staff are made aware

[brompton rail]

Really folding scooters and putting them in "the Brake Van" is an option only available in HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train), DVTs^‡(resolve) and the few loco hauled trains hired in. As such 'vehicles' are likely to be quite heavy and rather bulky where could they be accommodated in units (including Voyagers which have no storage area, well storage for catering supplies!).

Even folding bikes are now restricted to those with wheels under 20" in diameter. Bromptons are OK, of course!!