Worrying fact re:166s

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

The topic being what exactly? It start with a worrying 'fact' which was wrong.....

[northwesterntrains]

Interesting that everyone in this thread is focusing on a single disability issue, wheel chair access some one with a limb missing or someone who is blind, impaired sighting or learning difficulties have different requirements so adapting trains and stations for just wheel chairs does not answer all the DDA^» (Disability Discrimination Act - about) requirements.  The DDA does make exemptions for existing infrastructure and vehicles where it is impractical to modify them.

The FNW refurbed 150s that I mentioned are not fully DDA complaint they just demonstrate how an accessible toilet and wheelchair space can be added in.  Apparently to be fully DDA complaint you need braille buttons for opening and closing doors, warnings of doors closing, announcements before every station and PIS^▸ (Passenger Information System) for deaf passengers.  Although, with the latter I'm not sure if that means all stations also need announcements and display screens.

[northwesterntrains]

It start with a worrying 'fact' which was wrong.....

Well I fail to see how it is wrong.

All Pacers and Sprinters are older than the Turbos.  The 139 runs on battery and only uses diesel in the event of a flat battery.  This leaves 168, 170, 172, 175, 180 and 185s as the diesel units newer than the 166s and as I mentioned 172s were a newer unit we discount them.

I've already mentioned how many of the routes 170s were originally intended for were long distance.  This has changed due to 222s coming in to operation and some being cascaded to ScotRail, as well as the Central reorganisation which has put them on shorter routes than originally e.g. Birmingham to Stansted Airport instead of Liverpool to Stansted Airport.  One of the most significant factors of the use of the former CT 170s now is that EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) run Liverpool-Norwich but all the CT 170s went to either LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) or XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)), meaning LM have too many to put them all on longer distance services.  170s have a 100mph top speed and slower acceleration than the Sprinters, which doesn't exactly make them a good choice for stopping services.

168s are used on Birmingham-London, which does probably make the 168s one of the less debatable options but then the 168s are the oldest after the 166s.

175s were built for the FNW Regional Express services such as Llandudno-Manchester, Manchester Airport to Windermere and Birmingham to Holyhead.  185s were built for routes like Manchester Airport to Newcastle/Middlesbrough/Cleethorphes and Liverpool to Scarbrough and since finished up being used to replace Voyagers on Manchester Airport to Glasgow/Edinburgh.

180s I think we can call intercity.  It was rumoured that the original 180 design was drawn up for FNW's open access Blackpool-London service but after Virgin got competition protection FNW's parent company FGW^▸ (First Great Western) were still interested in using 180s.

[readytostart]

I've already mentioned how many of the routes 170s were originally intended for were long distance.  This has changed due to 222s coming in to operation and some being cascaded to ScotRail, as well as the Central reorganisation which has put them on shorter routes than originally e.g. Birmingham to Stansted Airport instead of Liverpool to Stansted Airport.  One of the most significant factors of the use of the former CT 170s now is that EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) run Liverpool-Norwich but all the CT 170s went to either LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) or XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)), meaning LM have too many to put them all on longer distance services.  170s have a 100mph top speed and slower acceleration than the Sprinters, which doesn't exactly make them a good choice for stopping services.

ScotRail's turbos were all built for them* with some being built for regional services, with first class compartments and some being built for local services, being all standard.

* with the exception of the four that were inherited from Hull Trains

[JayMac]

Well I fail to see how it is wrong.

You said:

(referring to 166s) "After ther 172s they are the newest build of commuter diesel trains."

As you've now pointed out, between those two builds we've had the 168s the 170s. You've missed out the 171s as well.

So, I stand by my point that the OPs^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter) 'worrying fact' was wrong. It can be argued that all of the DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) currently in service have been used/are used as commuter trains. It's a subjective term after all. Indeed, many folk commute on 'Inter-City' stock. HST^▸ (High Speed Train) to Oxford, anyone?


And incidentally, the 139 does not 'run on battery and only use diesel in the event of a flat battery'. It utilises a flywheel and a small LPG^▸ (Liquefied Petroleum Gas) fuelled engine.

[northwesterntrains]

You said:

(referring to 166s) "After ther 172s they are the newest build of commuter diesel trains."

As you've now pointed out, between those two builds we've had the 168s the 170s. You've missed out the 171s as well.

It can be argued that all of the DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) currently in service have been used/are used as commuter trains.

The terms commuter train is usually used as an alternative to local or stopping service.  While people do commute on longer distance services: Milton Keynes to London on Pendolinos would be another instance, but if a Pendolino was used to replace 319 or 323 diagrams it would be seen as a misfit.

171s were built as 170s (they weren't built as a seperate class) and had there not already been so many classes of 170 it would be likely that they would have been classed as 170/x. 

Maybe in Scotland and the South 170s are seen as more local but in the North they've been used on Liverpool to Norwich, Liverpool to Stansted Airport, Sheffield to London, Hull to London, Hull to Manchester/Liverpool and Manchester Airport to Cleethorphes.  None of those routes would look out-of-place in a XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) franchise and 170s have also been known to fill in for Voyager shortages on the Manchester-Bournemouth route.

[paul7575]

The terms commuter train is usually used as an alternative to local or stopping service.  While people do commute on longer distance services: Milton Keynes to London on Pendolinos would be another instance, but if a Pendolino was used to replace 319 or 323 diagrams it would be seen as a misfit.

171s were built as 170s (they weren't built as a seperate class) and had there not already been so many classes of 170 it would be likely that they would have been classed as 170/x. 

AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) 171s were renumbered as a safety measure to prevent them being accidentally diagrammed in multiple with 170s, because they have incompatible couplings that match 377s for rescue purposes. The individual vehicle number series are common with the 170s.

Paul