Peak Time Restrictions and 1st Upgrade from Waterloo

[whole diary]

[thetrout]

Evening all...

I've got a query regarding a ticket. I've been quoted by Southern Railway's website ^35.00 for a STD Off Peak return from Westbury - Zone U1 London (via Salisbury and with Disabled Railcard)

I intend to travel up to London on Saturday and take advantage of SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s Weekend First Upgrade for ^5

However I intend to return from Waterloo at 6:30AM on Monday (changing at Basingstoke and Salisbury).

So this leads me onto the questions

1) Southern's Journey Planner will let you select that ^35.00 fare for the return portion on that Mon 6:30AM train, but is this ticket actually valid on that train...?

2) If the above is valid, can anyone tell me what my costs to excess just the return portion of the ticket, to First Class would be?

3) If Q1 is not valid - which ticket do I need to buy on the outward leg?? Need to go into Waterloo as it's much easier to make my onward journey, as it puts me on the Jubilee Line, rather than messing around with the Underground at Paddington

Thanks

TT

[JayMac]

Restriction Code 8A for that journey according to Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains):

SVR   -  OFF-PEAK R                   SWT^▸ (South West Trains)
00800 -  WARMSTER-SALSBRY

Restriction : 8A
Available as listed below on 
any day.                     
                             
OUTWARD TRAVEL               
Valid on any train.   
                             
Break of journey is not       
permitted except to change   
trains at an intermediate     
station or to access station 
facilities.                   
                             
RETURN TRAVEL                 
Valid on any train.   

As to the excess, then that's a bit complicated! ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) guidlines for excessing one part of an Off Peak Return ticket say:

Charge the difference between the fare paid and the Standard Anytime Return fare PLUS the difference between the Standard and First Class Anytime Single fares for the journey. If cheaper, the First Single may be charged.

A bit difficult as there is no Standard Anytime Return (SOR) (makes kinda sense if the SVR is valid at any time in both directions!) on the Route: WARMSTER-SALSBRY fares. My best guess would be to excess you the difference between half your SVR fare (^17.50) and the First Anytime Day Single (^41.80) which would be ^24.30. Or it could be that the SVR is treated as an SOR (as there is no SOR on that flow) and therefore you just pay the difference between the Standard Anytime Day Single (SDS ^22.30) and the First Anytime Day Single (FDS ^41.80) which would be ^19.50.

However, those are only a guesses. I don't work in a ticket office, and what the combination of a clerk and computer come up with maybe entirely different - They may say it's not even possible! Only further advice to give you is to make sure you sort the excess at the station before departure and to ensure that you are only excessed for the RETURN journey.

All fares quoted include Railcard discount.

[SDS]

To make an SOR isnt it 2x the SDS, then excess as applicable?
Im sure mr ollie will be here to educate us all!

[JayMac]

To make an SOR isnt it 2x the SDS, then excess as applicable?
Im sure mr ollie will be here to educate us all!

Could be! That would be the difference between the SVR (^35.00) and 2xSDS (^44.60) which would be ^9.60 PLUS the difference between the SDS (^22.30) and the FDS (^41.80) which would be ^19.50. So in total that's ^29.10.

So in summary your excess could be ^19.50, ^24.30 or ^29.10, or not available at all!

Ticket restrictions bring my brain to a simmer. Excesses make it boil over!

[thetrout]

Thanks for that BNM

I was trying to work out if it would be cheaper to buy a return and excess it, or buy a Super Off Peak Single + W/F to Zone U1. Then a First Anytime Single back to Warminster, then a Single to Westbury - as this little trick saves about a fiver

I'm tempted to take a chance on it and if it works out more expensive - just put it down to experience and know for next time

I would ask at the ticket office before leaving, but by the time i'll get to Westbury on Saturday I know the ticket office will be closed

Maybe a phone call to NRES^▸ (National Rail Enquiry Service) might show the answer

[thetrout]

Just to summarise this thread.

I was at Westbury station today and beings nobody was queuing for a ticket, I asked the question at the ticket office. BNM you were spot on with ^19.50

Cheers,

TT

[thetrout]

Sorry to bring this thread up again... But I've had a bit of an issue with this ticket upgrade.

I arrived at London Waterloo - expecting to pay ^19.50 for my First Class upgrade... I handed over my ticket at the ticket office, and was a little bit shocked at the price I was quoted for as ^44.60 for an Upgrade...! Now, how is this possible when the First Class Anytime Single with railcard is ^39.80??

As I didn't have alot of time left, I took a First Class Anytime Single to Warminster... I boarded the train and asked the TM^‡(resolve) just to double check this. Which he did but came up with the figure of ^45.80

I'm a little bit cheesed off by this...! What I plan to do is when I get to Westbury Station, to ask them what the price is, beings as they quoted me the ^19.50 in the first place, in the hope I can then pay that and have the Warminster Single refunded... Failing that, It's a letter to South West Trains...!

OUTT

(One unhappy thetrout)

[JayMac]

I'm assuming the prices you've quoted included your railcard discount.

I did warn you that what a clerk and computer come up with maybe entirely different!

 Can I suggest that you call SWT^▸ (South West Trains) first and ask them in the first instance what the upgrade/excess should be. It wouldn't surprise me if you get quoted yet another price!

Then write in and complain. I'd also copy your complaint to Passenger Focus.

Excess Fares = Nightmares.

[Brucey]

Excess Fares = Nightmares.

Having needed excess fares for journeys from SWT^▸ (South West Trains) stations recently, I can confirm that many of their ticket office staff are not fully aware of all the procedures (perhaps either through a lack of training or lack of need to issue them).

The exact same excess has been quoted incorrectly at three different ticket offices.  As I held a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)-specific ticket, the rules state I should buy a whole new ticket and seek a refund for my old one.  Instead, I was once issued with a "X/S ALT RTE^‡(resolve) RTN" at one office, an "X/S ANYTIME DAY R" at another and a "X/S ALT RTE SGL" at a third (each at a different price - but all within 20p of each other).

Technically, my ticket was invalid but as I had paid the correct fare, been told to do this by ticket office staff and knowing my ticket would never be checked on the train, I didn't have any worries.

On the other hand, praise for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff (especially guards/conductors who don't have easy access to The Manual) who manage to work out the correct fare everytime.

[inspector_blakey]

I'd also copy your complaint to Passenger Focus.

Save yourself the cost of a stamp...Passenger Focus won't touch it until you've complained directly to the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) and received a response from them that you consider to be unsatisfactory. All you'll get is a letter back saying they can't do anything until the TOC has had a chance to resolve the issue.

But keep copies of everything you send/receive as if you end up making an appeal complaing PF^▸ (Penalty Fare) will ask for these.

[JayMac]

You are right blakey, I should've made that clear. Still, no cost of stamp would've been lost - Passenger Focus has a FREEPOST address.

[inspector_blakey]

I should also have qualified what I said with the caveat that, in my experience at least, Passenger Focus take ages to get round to doing anything and even when they finally get to it seem to be largely supine and toothless

Although in fairness it was several years ago when I last made an appeal complaint. Eventually we squeezed a ^10.00 travel voucher out of Thames Trains but I'm not sure it was a good return on all the time I invested in writing stroppy letters!

[Chris from Nailsea]

Hmm ... 

I rather think Passenger Focus are much the same as the Department for Transport, as the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) are their paymasters.

CfN. 

[ChrisB]

....which is why the Government have them under consideration for change as part of the quango cull....

In fact, if you get the right Passenger Link Manager for SWT^▸ (South West Trains), they actually give good service these days. Once you have a response from SWT, drop me an IM and I can find out who that Link Manager is.

Oh, when you do write to PF^▸ (Penalty Fare), copy in their Customer Panel too....

[thetrout]

Thanks for the responses gents

I did go to the Westbury ticket office and this time spoke to a different chap, who quoted me yet another excess of ^52.65

I am going to give South West Trains Customer Services a call today and see what response I get out of them. Failing that I will be writing a letter detailing the now 4 different prices i've been quoted and ask them directly what I should have paid, and if i've overpaid, what they intend to do about it. I'll photocopy the tickets as well before sending them.

I'm hoping that i'll get a sensible response out of them, but in future when I go to London on a weekend, i'll buy a Super Off Peak single down and a First Anytime Single on the way back, as clearly doing this excess is going to be a problem.