Crossrail

[IndustryInsider]

A Reading MP has voiced his concerns that extending Crossrail to Reading might not be a good idea.  Some silly arguments used if you ask me, and some sloppy journalism suggesting that Crossrail is more about linking Maidenhead and the west with Acton, rather than central London and Canary Wharf/East London!  I suggest that if any of his constituents that visit this website agree, they write to tell him where he's got it wrong.

http://www.itv.com/meridian-west/mp-no-to-crossrail09573/

[Btline]

Rolls eyes.

[paul7755]

I've always thought of Crossrail at Reading as having a similar role to SWT at Reading. 

It's an option for other possible journeys, but not that relevant to people simply wanting to get to London as fast as possible.  As we know from the GW RUS, NR are suggesting both Crossrail to Reading  and additional peak only fast line services into Paddington.

Paul

[ChrisB]

But there'll be competition across fares - far cheaper on Crossrail. Splut tge commuters, especially if yoy can save £1000 upwards with a Crossrail season. Cut overcrowding on GW HSTs/IEPs too

[eightf48544]

The fundamental problem with Crossrail where ever it terminates West of Eastbourne Terrace/Paddington it doesn't work. Crossrail is an S Bahn service or Paris RE service All stations end to end. 

You can't have 24 trains an hour coming out of the tunnel with only capacity for 10tph on the Relief Lines West of Padd. As they used to say in school 24 into 10 doesn't go!

However you timetable the service it means basically Reading will only get an all stations service to serve intermediate stations  most of the day instead of off Peak Semis to Hayes and Ealing, Twyford and Maidenhead will basically get only get all stations, certainly off peak, they may be lucky and get a couple of peak hour. What Slough gets I'm not sure does it still get the Off Peak Oxfords?

What we in the TV want is an electric railway to Swansea and Plymouth. If a few trains provide a through service down the Crossrail tunnels all well and good but not at the expense of disrupting the existing commuter flows in teh Thames Valley.       

[paul7755]

The fundamental problem with Crossrail where ever it terminates West of Eastbourne Terrace/Paddington it doesn't work. Crossrail is an S Bahn service or Paris RE service All stations end to end. 

You can't have 24 trains an hour coming out of the tunnel with only capacity for 10tph on the Relief Lines West of Padd. As they used to say in school 24 into 10 doesn't go!

Isn't that exactly why NR's London and SE RUS is now proposing a totally different solution, with destinations for all 24 tph found?  i.e. 10 tph Heathrow and beyond (eg Staines), 6 tph GWML and 8 tph WCML inner suburbans?

It wouldn't surprise me if a major review of rolling stock needs is underway, partly explaining the sudden delays to the procurement process, which the media have reported as a pro-Bombardier result - but that could just as easily be a sheer coincidence...
 
Paul 

[ChrisB]

You can't have 24 trains an hour coming out of the tunnel with only capacity for 10tph on the Relief Lines West of Padd.

The remainder will terminate in OOC & reverse won't they?

What Slough gets I'm not sure does it still get the Off Peak Oxfords?

Twice an hour, yes.

What we in the TV want is an electric railway to Swansea and Plymouth.

Who's this 'we'?....I've not seen any demand for it currently, so why will it suddenly start up?

If a few trains provide a through service down the Crossrail tunnels all well and good but not at the expense of disrupting the existing commuter flows in teh Thames Valley.

If it costs a *lot* less, I can see people using an all stations from Reading. Say a £1500/year saving on an annual ticket....

[IndustryInsider]

But there'll be competition across fares - far cheaper on Crossrail.

Will there be competition on fares necessarily?  Has it been confirmed that Crossrail is to be a seperate franchise?  Surely there's the possibility that it might be combined with either the Greater Western or Greater Anglian franchises in whatever future form they take?

[ChrisB]

Isn't CrossRail going to be part of TfL?....

[IndustryInsider]

Having done a bit of digging, in a manner of speaking it is, yes.  There'll be a Crossrail Train Operating Concession (CTOC) in a similar vein to the London Overground concession.  Though the exact difference between a concession and a franchise is not a great deal on the face of it.  So there would be nothing stopping FGW from winning the Greater Western Franchise and then bidding sucessfully to run the CTOC, and if they did I wonder whether there would be a seperate fares structure as you say. 

There probably isn't a precedent as such, but by comparison, the fares seem to be all the same over routes which both London Overground and another franchisee runs, such as Clapham Junction to Kensington Olympia, or New Cross Gate to Norwood Junction.

[Zoë]

Having done a bit of digging, in a manner of speaking it is, yes.  There'll be a Crossrail Train Operating Concession (CTOC) in a similar vein to the London Overground concession.  Though the exact difference between a concession and a franchise is not a great deal on the face of it.  So there would be nothing stopping FGW from winning the Greater Western Franchise and then bidding sucessfully to run the CTOC, and if they did I wonder whether there would be a seperate fares structure as you say.

One key difference with the London Overground concession is that LOROL simply run the trains for TfL with TfL setting the fares, train frequencies and branding, if this is the model to be followed then the winner of the concession would not be able to set their own fares even if they also operated the Greater Western franchise.  I can't see justification for TfL to set the fares as far as Maidenhead though as it's well outside their area so maybe FGW fares will apply outside of the zones regardless of who wins the concession in the same way that London Midland fares apply from London to Watford Junction.

[ChrisB]

Both valid points there.

I'm sure I read somewhere in an interview that there was intended to be fare separation, and if Reading was the terminus, whether Oyster would be permitted out that far? I guess we're all waiting for this info to emerge - Government needing to decide whether its MAI or RDG first.

[Btline]

Perhaps Reading will have to become "Zone R".

Will there be announcements on FGW HSTs "please note, TfL tickets and Oyster cards are not valid on this train".

Or will touching in/out at Paddington Mainline gateline result in a higher fare deduction?

[Zoë]

Perhaps Reading will have to become "Zone R".

Or it could simply be outside the zones with FGW set fares applying.  TfL could use a "Zone R" internally but there would be no need for it to be displayed to the public in the same way that TfL internally use Zone W for Watford Junction which is outside the zones and has fares set by London Midland.

[eightf48544]

In answer to Chris B's points.

Yes 14 tph out of 24 will terminate at Eastbourne Terrace and emptied and doors shut. See thread on Oxford terminators. They are already making provision for overcarries with a platform at Westbounre Park!

"What we in the TV want is an electric railway to Swansea and Plymouth.

Who's this 'we'?....I've not seen any demand for it currently, so why will it suddenly start up"

What I should have said is "I" want the wires because an electric railway is a better railway. Cleaner faster plus diesels going to run out etc. Of course there's the problem with the Brunel insulters in Maidenhead who don't want wires on his bridge.

As to fares don't forget not only Reading but Twyford, Maidenhead, Taplow Burnham Slough Langley  and Iver are all outside Zone 6 and so far Oyster. So separate Crossrail fares is going to cause confusion to say the least ie Will Crossrail fares be available on the fast Oxfords to Slough change for Taplow?.