Crossrail/Elizabeth Line. From construction to operation - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[paul7575]

What a ridiculous rail system we have where stuff like this exists. High prices for those who don’t individually do the research. It’s 2022.

This just reflects the way GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) pricing has been for years. Contactless fares for the bit outwards of Paddington (which is most of the cost here) have been set at half the equivalent day return fare. For Reading-Paddington you can split at Slough: £11.80+£18.60 vs. £52.10 (anytime) saving £21.70. In this case you don't even need to get off!

The media reporting seems intended to make out this is a new issue just this week, like the earlier misleading reports about Reading now being on the tube map…

[IndustryInsider]

I missed the opening day frenzy, but took a good look at the Elizabeth Line yesterday which was an overwhelmingly positive experience.  I thought I’d share my observations and thoughts.

I thought I’d also compare what the same journey experience through from Reading would have been like had I made the same journey a decade or so ago.  There is a lot of focus on when things go wrong, or where the service has become worse, than on the significant number of changes, both big and small, that have been made for the better which might have been forgotten about.

So, I set off from Reading late morning on a 9-car IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) in electric mode that had come up from Cornwall.  Plenty of seats available towards the back, though the front looked a bit cosy.  Naturally I didn’t want to rely on a trolley service, which didn’t materialise, so had brought my coffee from the outlet on the platform.

A decade ago this would have been on a diesel powered HST^▸ (High Speed Train) and would have had a buffet car of course.  Though I suspect it would have been closed by the time I boarded for the final leg into Paddington and if it had of been open, by the time I’d walked to it and made my purchase there wouldn’t have been time to drink it anyway!

A decade ago the route from outside the station to platform would have been via the old cramped concourse and overbridge, which seemed busy even at the quiet times.

Arrival at Paddington was at Platform 3 and after heading down to the new Elizabeth Line station you’re immediately hit with how spacious and accessible everything is and how much safer the platform edge doors make things.  I decided to head first for Liverpool Street, using my contactless card to pay.

A decade ago I would have been heading to a cramped platform 16 via the narrow overbridge and gateline shared with anyone using platforms 10-14 as well and then using the one set of steps that led down to the platform – no fancy luxuries like lifts in those days!  Whilst I could have used my Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) card, I would have needed to remember to ensure it was topped up of course.

The train itself pulled it and I reckon about 80 of us got on board, so plenty of room over the 9-car length of the train.  We departed and in ten minutes I had arrived at Liverpool Street, passing through Bond Street with its ‘new station’ and ‘opening soon’ labels on the roundels for a few months until it’s complete.  A VERY smooth ride in an air-conditioned train.

A decade ago my train would have been a 6-car ‘C’ stock train dating from the 70s.  No air-conditioning, a much worse ride, and a journey time of at least twice as long, maybe three times as long as time passed slowly by sat at Edgware Road.

Arriving at Liverpool Street and you’re in another large station with the two platforms connected at regular intervals with a main central corridor.  At one end two long escalators (and a little bit of a walk it has to be said) take you up to Liverpool Street station.  It’s clear how far underground the Elizabeth Line station has to be, to burrow under all the other existing lines and infrastructure.

I hadn’t realised, but the platforms at Liverpool Street station are SO long that if you go up the escalators at the other end, you end up at Moorgate station!  It’s clearly signposted, but I’m sure some people will be heading for connections at Liverpool Street mainline station and miss them because they’ve ended up taking the escalators up to Moorgate by mistake.

So, after a good look around I went back to the platform and got a train to Canary Wharf.  Another vast underground cavern of a station on two levels linked by escalators and lifts cleverly lit in canary yellow.

Next it was on to Custom House, one of only two stations on the route to Abbey Wood that is overground.  A much smaller, though still large, traditional station with the DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway) station alongside it for ongoing connections.

Finally it was on to the terminus, Abbey Wood.  Two platforms for Elizabeth Line trains, with to adjacent platforms for SouthEastern trains offering connections to Dartford, Gravesend, Lewisham and Sidcup – along with Thameslink trains to Rainham via the Medway towns of Strood, Chatham, Rochester and Gillingham with their quarter of a million inhabitants.

One of the Abbey Wood Elizabeth Line platforms has a connection with the two through lines allowing a future expansion of services through to Gravesend via Dartford and Ebbsfleet without a major rebuild to the station. 

A quick loo stop at Abbey Wood (no toilets on the trains remember!) was needed before I headed back through to Paddington in under thirty minutes.  Throughout all these journeys every train ran punctually, virtually to the second, there were plenty of staff on hand, and I overheard plenty of praise and positivity coming from other passengers...and not a single negative comment.

Arriving at Paddington I decided to head back on one of the Elizabeth Line trains to Reading to complete the experience.  Another visit to the loo alongside Platform 12 where my 9-car train was waiting – I meant to check whether the Elizabeth Line part of the station had its own toilets but forgot.

A decade ago (well, just over actually!) platform 12 was a dingy place to get a train with plenty of artificial light instead of the natural light from Span 4 which in those days was boarded up blocking the light, creating a very poor impression of that part of Paddington station.  The toilets were on Platform 1 and not as nice and spacious…and of course you had to pay for the privilege of using them.

So, back to the train and plenty of seats, and I chose a longitudinal one to see what a long journey travelling sideways would feel like.  I could still get a good look at all the stations en-route, most of which now have nice large concourses, lifts, gatelines and more visible staff.  There was a ticket check shortly after West Drayton.

A decade ago this would probably have been a 3-car diesel Turbo (perhaps even a 2-car!).  No air-conditioning (or that worked anyway).  Larger stations we stopped at enroute like Ealing, Hayes and Southall had cramped concourses, few lifts and few staff.  Smaller stations were open to access by anyone, with a ticket or not, unless you were confined to a wheelchair when it was tough luck.  And ticket examinations were rarer than hen’s teeth!

I arrived back at Reading very pleased with what I saw and experienced.

Sure, I could chuck a few negatives in there.  We should have been up and running with this service several years ago, and it’s gone over budget.  You still can’t get direct from Ealing to Abbey Wood.  The ‘cleverly lit’ canary yellow lifts and escalators could easily be labelled a bit naff. 

A definite artwork fail is the glass roof at Paddington with its ‘pretend cloud’ finish that (when it is cloudy like yesterday) just looks like the window cleaners have left without finishing the job – perhaps it looks better under blue skies?

Then there are the free toilets at Paddington, but of course the old Turbo trains had free toilets on board which is the case no longer.  We also had a tissue seller on board from Ealing to West Drayton (though he was a very polite one).

Overall though?  Fantastic, transformative and modern.  Something for all Londoners to be proud of.

[paul7575]

Interesting point about Liverpool St & Moorgate.  I expect before long someone will enter and exit 10 mins later at the other end and be charged a fare for an underground walk.

I don’t know how the barrier lines will work collectively, because presumably a single station journey on the H&C or Circle is still valid as before.

[Reading General]

What a ridiculous rail system we have where stuff like this exists. High prices for those who don’t individually do the research. It’s 2022.

This just reflects the way GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) pricing has been for years. Contactless fares for the bit outwards of Paddington (which is most of the cost here) have been set at half the equivalent day return fare. For Reading-Paddington you can split at Slough: £11.80+£18.60 vs. £52.10 (anytime) saving £21.70. In this case you don't even need to get off!

Quite. The fact that all these arrangements still exist all over the network demonstrates what a poor railway it is with loopholes and discrepancies. We require a railway where everything is transparent on the price without having to shop around and do research. We require a railway which all works as one system rather than one with competitive pricing and operators. Instead, demonstrated by the misinformation over this vast project and the above fare arrangements, we still have a confusing railway that shows no signs of changing or moving on to become a simple, useable, affordable network for everyone to use for all journeys, without using apps and the internet to find what the best or cheapest way of doing things is. As far as I’m concerned, we’re getting transport wrong.

[Mark A]

Write up of some of the fares weirdness from MyLondon, here:

https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/crossrail-how-elizabeth-line-fares-24059991

[Marlburian]

"Mum who commutes to Burnham disappointed in Elizabeth Line launch"

Seems quite a long article about not very much?

National Rail gives journey times between 96 and 113 minutes for Chadwell Heath to Burnham.

[bobm]

I am going to echo much of what II has posted as I took a trip on the new line today.

My trip started at Paddington at 7.20am and got me back there at 9.45am.   Assuming the initial rush of enthusiasts has died down somewhat the trains were all busy but not uncomfortably so. 



Throughout signage is good and there are plenty of staff on hand to guide people through the system and answer questions.

As many have said, the first thing that strikes you is the space.  High ceilings, well lit and spacious concourses as soon as you enter the new station at Paddington.







Although not officially part of the Underground network, the trains do of course travel below the surface but there is none of the screeching, uneven ride or stuffy interiors associated with the tube.  We moved swiftly beneath the city before emerging to the east and the current terminus at Abbey Wood.

I will bet not many had heard of Abbey Wood until recently - other than it is the first station alphabetically in pick lists on journey planners.  Unlike Paddington where terminating trains go out to Westbourne Park before returning to form an eastbound service, trains here use one of two platforms alternately. 





With such a frequent service a departure board is almost superfluous, so much so that no one seemed to notice it was more than ten minutes out of date



All the stations are understandably clean but their exteriors do blend in well with their surroundings



All the trains I caught ran on time and my journey to Abbey Wood and back (exiting at two stations) reached the daily cap of £11 on my Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) card.  Very hard to criticise on the basis of one round trip and the only thing I did notice was on occasions the platform doors opened momentarily after the train doors and I did see a couple of people bump into the second set of doors as they started to exit.



The big plus for me is the new areas of London it opens up with an easy journey from Paddington.  I had a walk around the site of the old Woolwich Arsenal - where my grandfather worked - the Woolwich pier and Thames Clippers and Canary Wharf.  All within a couple of hours of leaving Swindon.

[eightonedee]

"Mum who commutes to Burnham disappointed in Elizabeth Line launch"

Seems quite a long article about not very much?

It's not the only Berkshire Live article on the Elizabeth Line about which that can be said.

There's a link to another one embedded in the article with the clickbait title "House prices explode in Slough, Reading and other Elizabeth line stations". Having recently retired from providing services to the housebuilding industry since the 1980s I thought I would check it out (https://www.getreading.co.uk/news/property/elizabeth-line-house-prices-explode-24012349).

I do hope that the credulous readers of (or contributors to?) this site have not piled into investing in residential property beyond Burnham. The article quotes house price increases of 62% in Taplow, 61% in Maidenhead, 50% in Twyford and 62% in Reading between 2012 and 2021. For comparison, the Nationwide House Price indices for Greater London, Outer Metropolitan and Outer South-east increased by 67.7%, 65% and 66.5% respectively between the second quarter of 2012 and fourth quarter of 2021. So while Langley, Slough and Burnham have "won" with increases of 73%, 81%  and 75% respectively over the same period, it looks like the correct headline should be "Elizabeth Line has had no positive effect on house prices west of Burnham".

I'd rather read Industry Insider and BobM for informed views of the effect of the scheme!

[bobm]

I'd rather read Industry Insider and BobM for informed views of the effect of the scheme!

Praise indeed, thank you.   I've just had a text from a friend though saying "I see you've posted your ramblings from today."!! 

[TonyK]

"Mum who commutes to Burnham disappointed in Elizabeth Line launch"

Seems quite a long article about not very much?

There's no pleasing some folk.

I'd rather read Industry Insider and BobM for informed views of the effect of the scheme!

Hear hear!

[bobm]

I meant to add - if you are thinking of taking a trip on Saturdays 11th of June or 30th July; don’t.  Services between Paddington and Abbey Wood are suspended both days.

[infoman]

Would any one know what surcharge was levied on Buisness's and residents in the London area to part pay for cross rail?

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

A new and useful travel opportunity which I didn’t realise straight away is the Farringdon interchange between the EL and Thameslink, whose trains go to many destinations north and south of London.

[bradshaw]

One million journeys in just five days
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61629982

[Electric train]

Would any one know what surcharge was levied on Buisness's and residents in the London area to part pay for cross rail?

A quick Google and -
"How will London’s businesses help fund Crossrail?
The Crossrail Business Rate Supplement (BRS^▸ (Business Rates Supplement)) has been
used to finance £4.1 billion of the costs of the project. Of this,
around £3.3 billion has been borrowed with the remaining
£0.8 billion being funded directly using BRS revenues. It will
need to be levied until the GLA’s borrowing is repaid. This is
expected to be some time in the 2030s.
Does my business have to pay the Crossrail BRS?
Your rates bill makes clear if you are liable to pay the
BRS. Since April 2017 the Crossrail BRS is applied only to
assessments (for example business and other non domestic
premises) with a rateable value of over £70,000 on the local
rating lists of the 32 London boroughs and City of London
Corporation. Around 85 per cent of non domestic properties in
London will be exempt from the BRS in 2018-19 due to
this threshold.
How much do I pay if my property’s rateable value is
 above £70,000?
The Crossrail BRS multiplier for 2018-19 remains at 2p per
pound of rateable value. Reliefs for the Crossrail BRS will
apply on the same basis and at the same percentage rate as
for your National Non Domestic Rates (NNDR) bill. However,
no transitional relief is provided for the BRS."