Permit requirements for taxi drivers at railway stations

[whole diary]

[John R]

It's probably easier to drop people in the Temple Quay complex - it's secure as you can see the person you've dropped right up to the station entrance, and so long as you don't need to get out yourself, a lot quicker in and out.

[TonyK]

It's probably easier to drop people in the Temple Quay complex - it's secure as you can see the person you've dropped right up to the station entrance, and so long as you don't need to get out yourself, a lot quicker in and out.

I agree, but couldn't do this as I had to get out to get my wife's pre-ordered ticket. Mrs FTN doesn't really do ticket machines yet, although I'm working on it. The car park taht side seems to be controlled by video cameras with APNR, and the signs suggest that I will be billed if I cross the line, even for the briefest of moments. If I'm wrong about that, someone please tell me!

[Chris from Nailsea]

The car park taht side seems to be controlled by video cameras with APNR, and the signs suggest that I will be billed if I cross the line, even for the briefest of moments. If I'm wrong about that, someone please tell me!

You're wrong about that: it's ANPR - Automatic Number Plate Recognition. 

[TonyK]

The car park taht side seems to be controlled by video cameras with APNR, and the signs suggest that I will be billed if I cross the line, even for the briefest of moments. If I'm wrong about that, someone please tell me!

You're wrong about that: it's ANPR - Automatic Number Plate Recognition. 

Whoops! It was a typo - I've dealt with them for years, as they have at DLVA.

FNT.

[grahame]

Side question:  Is a fee payable to use the rank at Chippenham?

Answering own question ... around 2 pounds per day / annual license, a couple of dozen such licenses sold. So that's an annual income of around 17,000 pounds for the station operator.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From South West Business:

Bristol cab businesses' costly defeat over annual Temple Meads Station charge

Taxi drivers who objected to paying a ^375 annual charge to use the ranks at Temple Meads Station have suffered a costly defeat in their legal challenge to the move.

City cabbies Patricia Jones and Mourad Tighilt led the legal challenge against train operator First Great Western, which holds the lease on the station and decided to introduce the charges in March 2012. But they lost the case and now face a legal bill which could run into thousands of pounds.

The pair, representing the Bristol branch of the National Taxi Association, argued the two ranks that serve the station were established by bye-law and therefore public, and that the train company had no legal right to levy charges.

But three Appeal Court judges ruled that First Great Western^s private property rights trumped taxi drivers^ demands to wait for passengers without paying a charge.

Lady Justice Arden, sitting with Lords Justice Underhill and Floyd, said the charges were proposed to start at ^375-a-year, but they were 'planned to rise'.

The ruling means First can charge cabbies whatever it likes for standing on the ranks, which cabbies fear could rise up to ^2,500.

In an additional blow to the taxi drivers, they were ordered to pay First Great Western^s substantial legal costs bills. They will have to pay interim costs of ^45,000 within the next 56 days, pending assessment of their total bill, which could be double that sum.

The taxi drivers have argued that the cost of the permits are likely to soar by as much as seven times. They argued the charges were illegal because the rank is part of the public highway and not private property.

Morad Tighilt, secretary of the Bristol Taxi Drivers^ Association, said drivers fear the cost of permits will soar because First Great Western use a formula to calculate permit costs which depended on the annual number of passengers at each station. He said the footfall was about nine million, equating to an annual permit charge of ^2,500.

Mr Tighilt said: ^Cabbies take about three or four months to earn that kind of money and they need it to pay for running their vehicles and all their overheads as well as looking after their families. This year it is ^375, but next year they will double it and it will keep going up and up.^

A First Great Western spokesperson said: ^There are 7.8 million people who go through Temple Meads every year, and the permit scheme will allow us to improve the overall station experience for all of our customers.^

[TonyK]

It seems the advice the cab drivers relied on in taking legal action was somewhat flawed. My own observation suggests that cabbies still flock to Temple Meads like wasps to a picnic. It will remain to be seen when the attraction fades because of cost.

[JayMac]

That there is a 20p 'extra' for all fares from Temple Meads goes some way to cover the annual charge levied by FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

I just hope there isn't an ever escalating rise in that 'extra' though. With the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) putting up the annual charge and the City Council raising the 'extra' to cover it.

I'm a bit miserly and resent the 'extra' anyway. At busy times, rather than queue for a taxi, I'll walk down to Temple Gate and hail one there! If my timing is right I'll often get the bus to Clifton Triangle and then grab a taxi there.

[Brucey]

That there is a 20p 'extra' for all fares from Temple Meads goes some way to cover the annual charge levied by FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

I just hope there isn't an ever escalating rise in that 'extra' though. With the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) putting up the annual charge and the City Council raising the 'extra' to cover it.

I fear we will see what has already happened with airport taxis.  At Heathrow, TfL^» (Transport for London - about) permit ^3.20 extra to be charged for taking a taxi to/from the airport taxi ranks.  Ask to be dropped at the street down the road and the charge does not apply.

[TonyK]

That there is a 20p 'extra' for all fares from Temple Meads goes some way to cover the annual charge levied by FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

I just hope there isn't an ever escalating rise in that 'extra' though. With the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) putting up the annual charge and the City Council raising the 'extra' to cover it.

I'm a bit miserly and resent the 'extra' anyway. At busy times, rather than queue for a taxi, I'll walk down to Temple Gate and hail one there! If my timing is right I'll often get the bus to Clifton Triangle and then grab a taxi there.

I'm even more miserly than you, my large schnozzled occasional boozing buddy. I live either a 40-minute walk from Temple Meads, a ^1.00 "three stop hop" on the bus away, or a ^10 cab ride. I often walk, or in the case of inclemency of the elephants, I get a bus. The distance from Temple Meads to the next bus stop towards Brislington is great, making it very good value, whereas the same fare could buy you as little as a ride from the top of Sandy Park Road to Arnos Vale. The last time I took a taxi was in Yorkshire, where a cab ride of a greater distance cost less than half the Bristol price, leading to a gratuity that surprised both the cabbie and me, and ensured an excellent return service.

The less I spend on transport, the more disposable income I have to spend on investing for my impending retirement (maximum 510 working days hence).

And beer.

[trainer]

Here's a tip for anyone needing a taxi to/from Birmingham Airport.  Go to Birmingham International Station, use the free transfer to the Airport and avoid the charge for going on site made for dropping off.  This tip came from my taxi driver!

[TonyK]

Here's a tip for anyone needing a taxi to/from Birmingham Airport.  Go to Birmingham International Station, use the free transfer to the Airport and avoid the charge for going on site made for dropping off.  This tip came from my taxi driver!

Noted! Although I have never flown from Brum.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the Bristol Post:

Anger as cabbies take over parking spaces at Temple Meads


Taxis using parking bays at Temple Meads railway station

Parking for people picking up friends and relatives from Bristol Temple Meads station is being swamped by taxis, commuters say. The short-stay car park outside the station's main entrance is being filled up by taxis during busy periods, passengers say, leaving no space for paying customers.

Commuter Kate Beej told the Bristol Post she counted 21 blue hackney cabs parked in the short stay car park at 10.20am waiting for a space in the nearby rank, with only a few spaces left for paying customers. She said: "I took pictures of Temple Meads customer car park at 10.20am. Twenty-one taxis were parked there and no new customers were able to park. What on earth do they think they're doing? I'm pretty sure it's against regulations."

The car park allows customers 20 minutes' free parking. Taxi driver Mike Power said that does not apply to hackney cab drivers, whose permits only allow them to wait in the designated ranks.

But Mr Power, who has been working as a taxi driver in the city for 13 years, said he believed the short-stay car park was the least of the problems at the station. He said: "Of course it happens ^ but it's only for five or ten minutes a day. When big London trains come in there are always lots of taxis waiting, especially if the train is delayed by five or ten minutes, as there isn't enough space for all the taxis in the ranks so they do wait in the car park. But it soon clears. It's the least of the problems we have down here."

Colleague Ray Phillips, who has been a taxi driver in Bristol for 30 years, said: "We pay ^450 for permits to work here, but there is not enough room for all the drivers. Sometimes drivers wait in the car park but it's only ever during the busy time, from about 9.45am until 11am. There are always enough passengers for the amount of taxis waiting, so we are just trying to provide a service."

Both drivers added that there was still a problem with taxi drivers from outside of the city coming in illegally to pick up work, as previously reported by the Post.

Mr Power added: "The problem is getting worse. More and more drivers from outside Bristol are coming in, and they don't have to abide by the same rules we do. People just see a taxi sign and presume they can operate here and be flagged down but that's not the case."

Fellow driver Tim Lloyd, 53, said the problems at the station would continue to worsen if the council didn't put a cap on the number of drivers obtaining permits to operate at the station. He said: "The problem is there are far too many permits for the amount of spaces in the ranks. But everyone has paid for their permits and so wants to come at the busiest times to get the most business, which sometimes means waiting in the parking bays. Sometimes we are moved on, and of course we then abide by that. But the demand is there, so it's a case of just waiting for a couple of minutes."

A spokeswoman for Network Rail, which owns the car park, said the company was aware of the problem. She said: "We own the car park but employ a contractor to run it for us. We have terms and conditions that the taxi drivers have to sign up to when they apply for a permit to be on the premises. These terms and conditions include the fact that they are only allowed to park in the designated taxi rank area. If it is full, they have to leave the station until space becomes available in the rank. As part of our agreement with our contractor, a member of their staff is assigned to manage the taxi rank and ensure they adhere to this rule. We are aware that on occasion some taxi drivers do not and so we are working with our contractors to take action against these drivers."

[Red Squirrel]

But Mr Power, who has been working as a taxi driver in the city for 13 years, said he believed the short-stay car park was the least of the problems at the station. He said: "Of course it happens ^ but it's only for five or ten minutes a day. When big London trains come in there are always lots of taxis waiting, especially if the train is delayed by five or ten minutes, as there isn't enough space for all the taxis in the ranks so they do wait in the car park. But it soon clears. It's the least of the problems we have down here."

If I understand correctly, Mr Power is saying that taxi drivers only make the short-stay car park completely inaccassible to the public at exactly the times when it is most needed. Any other times, it's fine!

[IndustryInsider]

No mention of them also being parked up in the long stay disabled bays as clearly seen in that photo.