Crosscountry trains - HST or Voyager?

[whole diary]

[Timmer]

I knew there was a problem with overcrowding on the Bristol-London line mid to late afternoon on a Sunday and that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are addressing this with an extra service, but I didn't know that this is now happening earlier in the afternoon as well. Sunday is becoming just like any other day of the week so maybe some TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) need to look at the level of service that they are offering. Easier said than done of course in that you need staff to work the extra services with Sunday working being an issue between the unions and some TOCs.

[Chris from Nailsea]

You also need to factor in engineering work.

It is, sadly, just not possible: the idea of a 'seven day railway' is just that: an idea. 

[IndustryInsider]

As Chris points out, as well as staffing, there's the capacity issue.  The FGW^▸ (First Great Western) main line has to operate as a 2-track railway between Didcot and London in order for engineering work to take place.  NR^» (Network Rail - home page)'s much publicised 'seven day railway' programme (see: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/StrategicBusinessPlan/Update/Move%20towards%20a%20seven%20day%20railway.pdf) attempts to address that issue and is more than just an idea, as the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) Sunday timetable will confirm.

Sadly for FGW and its passengers the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) out of Paddington is only 4th on its list of priorities after the WCML (already complete), and the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) from Kings Cross and GEML^▸ (Great Eastern Main Line) from Liverpool Street.  So, don't hold your breath for many more services any time soon - which is why a 6th or 7th standard class vehicle would be such a help on some HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets.

[readytostart]

Also I've never tried booking on a double set, do Cross Country allow reservations in coaches G onwards?

Unfortunately they do, for general seat reservations when the single set is full and for specific requests, such as table / quiet carriage when these are already fully allocated on the first set. Unfortunately this causes an absolute nightmare when (as happened yesterday on the 1307 ex EDB- PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains) that I was on) the double set is a single (8v4 yesterday - ABD-PNZ was stuck behind a failed EC north of Edinburgh, incoming double set split and one set ran off in the path of the standed unit). So not only do you have a set where every reservable seat is booked at some point in the journey, there was no unreserved coach as a 4car, oh and it was a Friday afternoon, passing through Birmingham in the evening peak.
Another problem occurs when a double voyager runs vice a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) or vice versa as the coach letters on each do not marry up for the transfer of seat reservations.

[Bob_Blakey]

Travelling home last Thursday (17th) from a work meeting I ended up on the 1812 ex-BHM - PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains) which turned out to be a double Voyager. I have no idea whether this is a standard arrangement in the current timetable or if it was the result of operational issues. The rear unit was detached at BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) but this was not announced to the passengers until immediately after departure from BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains).

[devon_metro]

Travelling home last Thursday (17th) from a work meeting I ended up on the 1812 ex-BHM - PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains) which turned out to be a double Voyager. I have no idea whether this is a standard arrangement in the current timetable or if it was the result of operational issues. The rear unit was detached at BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) but this was not announced to the passengers until immediately after departure from BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains).

That's normal, detached rear four form 2000 Bristol - wherever it goes

[CVO_Dan]

Hello from the USA...my first post on this forum.
This thread was quite interesting to me because in August my wife and I need to train from Edinburgh to Cardiff (preferred) or Bristol.  Crosscountry has a route with zero changes leaving at 1306 and arriving in Bristol @ 1943...when I use the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) website to start the booking process up to the point of being able to see seats...that service appears to be the hated Voyager and not a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) as least according to the seat maps I found at:
http://help.thetrainline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4234/~/cross-country-seating-maps
I have seen very few positive posts about the Voyager...
So my question is: how can I see which rolling stock is actually being used on a route without going "faking booking" every route.  And if that's not possible, what would be the suggested routing to get to Wales...Travel criteria:
Departure: Aug 12
Can't leave earlier than 1130
Will have a reasonable amount of luggage so would like to reduce changes to a minimum
1st class (the XC @ 1306 was also attractive because the advance purchase fare for 1st class was only 90 pounds)
Thanks in advance
Dan Foreman

[grahame]

Hi, Dan ... and welcome to the forum.

Edinburgh to Cardiff ... I would be very tempted to change at Crewe rather than Bristol.    That gives you a rather nice Pendelino for the majority of the journey and beautiful countryside most of the way - the West Coast line, and the Welsh Marches.   And looking at the 12:51 and 14:51, it's significantly faster too.

I have travelled in Voyagers from Scotland all the way south - they're not bad - just that most of us have a preference (love?) for the HST^▸ (High Speed Train).  But the Crosscountry HSTs live up north and make a daily round trip to the South West, so they will be long gone by 11:30.

Fares ... I suspect you'll find the route I've suggested at a much lower price if you book Edinburgh to Crewe and Crewe to Cardiff separately.

[Worcester_Passenger]

The First Class in Voyagers is a lot better than travelling steerage.

I'd echo Grahame's comments about the view out of the window. If you go on the direct train, you will get to see the coast for the first hour or so until you're south of Alnmouth. Then you get the bridges at Newcastle and the Cathedral at Durham. But after that there's not a lot.

Travelling by way of Crewe you get mountain scenery (well - British mountain scenery) as far as Lancaster. And you do get a pretty run through the Marches (the border land between England and Wales) from Shrewsbury to Newport. But you will have to change at Crewe, and it won't be a same-platform change, though lifts are available. And there won't be First Class between Crewe and Cardiff.

[Worcester_Passenger]

There's a clickable plan of Crewe station at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_CRE/plan.html. You will probably have to change from platform 5 to platform 6.

[chrisr_75]

If you want less baggage hassle and more time either in Edinburgh or Cardiff and less time sitting on the train, there are also direct flights from Edinburgh to Cardiff. I don't know about the Edinburgh side of the journey but Cardiff is a short bus/taxi ride to the city centre.

Currently showing one way on August 12th with one checked bag for ^85 per passenger, flight time 1h35. Departures at 11.20 and 19.45.

www.cityjet.com

[CVO_Dan]

Thanks all for the excellent info!
I had looked @ EDB > CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains) via CRE^» (Crewe - next trains) but ruled it out because of a tight connection (arrival CRE 1558 & departure 1608)...
That seemed a little tough with luggage, platform change, and possibility of a delay on EDB > CRE...but if I look at it
as 2 separate tickets there are other, less arduous, options to CDF...just no 1st class....So:
1. is Arriva economy as hated as XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) economy?
2. is the Virgin 1251 from EDB > CRE the beloved Pandalino that's been mentioned?
I did look at the flight option (thanks for that) but we probably can't make the 1120 flight...we are disembarking from a sailing ship in Dundee and they said they can get us to the airport @ 1045....a bit tight for my liking...and the next flight is much later.  EasyJet flies from EDI to BRS^▸ (Business Rates Supplement) (Bristol) but similar timing...can't make the morning and the next flight is much later in the day...would rather spend my down time on a pleasant train than an airport

[chrisr_75]

I thought about the fight option as with the later flight you'd have the option of having the best part of a day in Edinburgh to explore, although you would of course have to find somewhere to store your luggage.

If you are alighting your ship in Dundee, you could catch a train from there, although National Rail indicate changes required at Glasgow (to a different station) and Crewe.

When you mention arriva standard class, if you are referring to arriva trains wales, as long as you can get a seat the trains are actually quite comfortable, with a decent amount of legroom, although luggage space is at something of a premium.

[Timmer]

If I was doing this journey, which I regularly do down the East Coast before heading to the south coast, it's via London every time using East Coast Trains Edinburgh-London and First Great Western London-Cardiff. Easy for me to say however as I don't have a lot of luggage so can use the Underground. But a taxi from Kings Cross to Paddington won't cost a fortune but won't be a cheap as the Underground.

Some will disagree with me but my rule is services to/from London are the the best trains simply because they serve London.

[bobm]

I'd agree with you Timmer.  If you are lucky with advance tickets it need not be much more expensive - in fact on the odd occasion I have found it cheaper.