Cancellation of Advance tickets

[whole diary]

[James Vertigan]

Hi guys,

I have a little bit of a problem that needs answering on here regarding Advance tickets.

I booked an Advance single journey from Chesterfield-NTA^» (Newton Abbott - next trains) for April 29th and another advance single from NTA-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) on 2nd May. Both of them were first class so the total was around ^91, I also booked two Plusbus tickets for use in Newton Abbot on the same days.

Unfortunately, I may not be able to make these journeys now as I was going to Newton Abbot to see a friend but she broke her leg a few weeks ago and may not be well enough for me to come down when I had planned. I bought the tickets through TheTrainLine and stupidly didn't insure them as I was sure I was going to be able to make the journeys, so do you think if I explain my situation to TheTrainLine they will be able to make some sort of arrangement due to these exceptional circumstances, because I am very worried they will say they are bound by the terms of carriage, but I wasn't one to know that this situation would arise...

[JayMac]

Unfortunately, I would say you are out of luck. Advance Purchase tickets are not refundable. The best you can do with them is change your travel plans for the day they are valid. Even then, origin and destination have to remain the same, with any change of plan having to be altered prior to the departure of your first booked train. Also any difference in fare will be payable, along with a ^10 admin fee.

You can try appealing to thetrainline's better nature, but I don't think they, (or, indeed, any other ticket retailer) will have one in this instance. Sorry. 

[James Vertigan]

Unfortunately, I would say you are out of luck. Advance purchase tickets are not refundable. The best you can do with them is change your travel plans for the day they are valid. Even then, origin and destination have to remain the same, with any change of plan having to be altered prior to the departure of your first booked train. Also any difference in fare will be payable, along with a ^10 admin fee.

You can try appealing to thetrainline's better nature, but I don't think they (or any other ticket retailer) will have one in this instance. Sorry. 

Thanks Mac 

I think it's stupid that you can't get a refund on Advance tickets but you can buy them up to three months in advance - plans can change in that time!

I am slightly hopeful that I will get somewhere if I explain the exceptional circumstances, but I know it may not be possible to do anything about it. It's not like she planned to break her leg!

I would have no use for them if I could only change the dates as I am only in the Peak District area from 22nd-29th April (hence departure from Chesterfield) so if I could make changes I would have to change the origin station as well as the date of that single ticket I booked for the 29th April, but my other single ticket (NTA^» (Newton Abbott - next trains)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)) would be fine, I'd just need to change the date of that.

[old original]

You can only change dates & times, the origin & destination have to stay the same

[grahame]

If I buy a single ticket, London Paddington to Melksham (one I was looking at earlier today) for the evening of 7th April, I have choices ...

8.50 for an advanced standard single on the 23:30, change Swindon, arrive 06:41
21.50 for the same, first class
25.50 for a super offpeak standard class single
28.00 for a super offpeak stanadrd single also valid via Westbury
31.00 for an offpeak single, standard
34.00 for an offpeak single, standard, also valid via Westbury
69.50 for an anytime single, standard
79.50 for an anytime single, standard, also valid via Westbury
109.50 for an anytime single, first class

If I choose to pay 8.50, I loose it if I don't travel ... if I pay 25.50 I've got a lot more flexibility.   If I were to be able to pay 8.50, but then change it without penalty if I couldn't travel, then I would buy that - hopefully to travel at the cheap rate, but unpenalised if I couldn't.  And so would everyone else ... and the farebox take would drop ... and other fares would have to go up ...

The "no refunds / no change" policy seems Draconian ... but with such a dramatic difference in fares, it's necessary to avoid making the fares system even crazier.   Whether you agree with the 3:1 differential between the advanced fare and the super offpeak single, and a further 3:1 differential up to any anytime ticket, is quite another matter!

[bobm]

The few times I've had to waste an advance ticket has been more than covered by the savings I have made on the others. A first class Paddington to Penzance for around 70 quid is a bargain in my book. I'd never be able to justify the full first class fare.

Grahame, on your trip from Paddington how long do you get to enjoy the nightlife of Swindon before your connection to Melksham?!

[grahame]

Grahame, on your trip from Paddington how long do you get to enjoy the nightlife of Swindon before your connection to Melksham?!

00:44 to 06:16 at Swindon - so that's 5 hours and 32 minutes.

Aside - The only other service from Paddington to Melksham on a Monday to Friday is on the 17:45 from Paddington, arrival 19:10, 6 minute change at Swindon. Fares are:

48.50 Advanced Standard Single (current offer for 7th April)
69.50 Anytime Standard Single
79.50 Anytime Standard Single (also valid via Westbury)
82.00 Advanced First Single
109.50 Anytime First Single
That last fare is always offered twice and I suspect that's because there are two tickets at the price, one via Swindon and the other also valid via Westbury.  There are no first class seats on most trains on the TransWilts, and the only connections at Westbury (from London) are on Saturday and Sunday.

You can also travel for 37.20 on the 17:30 from Paddington, book any time, on a Paddington -> Didcot ticket and then a Didcot -> Melksham super-offpeak one. That's not valid on the 17:45.   Personally, I prefer the 17:30 anyway as it gives me time to make the connection without having to sprint at Swindon.

I've added that as a bit of a record for myself to refer back to - sorry about going off topic.  No wonder that 94% of businesses strongly agreed (or agreed) that an improved TransWilts service would improver their accessibiity and competitiveness.  See http://atrebatia.info/report.html

[ChrisB]

I think bereavement is the only medical 'excuse' they'll consider. And yes, they do have the right to ask for proof....

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

are they transferable?

[inspector_blakey]

Nope.

One of the conditions of carriage is that tickets of any description aren't transferable. This is often (wilfully...?) misinterpreted by people who read it and get upset because they think they can't buy a ticket for someone else. That's garbage, because the CoC^▸ (Chamber of Commerce TBA) go on to state that a ticket can only be used by the person for whom it was bought, not who bought it.

This applies to all tickets issued for travel on National Rail services, although how it's possible to enforce it I'm not really sure.

[James Vertigan]

Well, I sent an email to TheTrainLine earlier and have received a reply (it seems the Indian call centrre also reply to emails as some of it looks scripted and the English is a bit poor!)

On this occasion, as it is due to illness, they will process a refund and as Chris B has said, they have asked for a doctor's note and for me to send the tickets and doctor's note via recorded delivery then a refund will be processed minus ^10 per ticket for admin fees.

[ChrisB]

Wow! THey've relented slightly.....interesting.

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) are not the only organisations that operate the "no refund" policy for cheap advance tickets. Many of the major hotel chains do exactly the same for advance hotel bookings and have done so for many years. In economic terms it is all about what is sometimes called "Market Fractioning", i.e. to sell the same basic product to as many people as possible from different economic backgrounds. Charge the high price to those who have most need to use it and sell at a lower price to those who have to be persuaded to use it. It is exactly the same economic principle that has applied for as long as I can remember on peak and off peak travel tickets.

[ChrisB]

And what about flight tickets? You can only cancel full fare - anything cheaper and you're stuck on what you've booked on inless you upgrade it to flexible.

[JayMac]

Well, I sent an email to TheTrainLine earlier and have received a reply (it seems the Indian call centrre also reply to emails as some of it looks scripted and the English is a bit poor!)

On this occasion, as it is due to illness, they will process a refund and as Chris B has said, they have asked for a doctor's note and for me to send the tickets and doctor's note via recorded delivery then a refund will be processed minus ^10 per ticket for admin fees.

That is a bit of a result. So it appears there was no harm in asking. Neither illness or bereavement are explicitly covered by the T&Cs of Advance Purchase (and I can understand that), but it's nice to see a little discretion being shown. I make that ^71 back in Rail Travel Vouchers, which is a darn sight better than diddly.....