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« Reply #105 on: September 06, 2011, 21:25:35 » |
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Money.
Absolutely, it is the Governments decision and not Network Rail. To go to Swansea there is quite a lot of immunisation of signaling and telecoms that needs to be done, when there were signaling and telecoms renewals west of Cardiff a decision was made not to install to standards because there was a belief that electrification would never happen!!! Even with they recently completed Newport area there is a lot of immunisation that has to be done to bring it up to standards. NR» 's focus is to deliver the GWML▸ electrification scheme as specified by the Government not only to budget and to time but to a lower budget and shorter time that way the Government will have greater confidence in NR to deliver electrification make other schemes like the MML» more likely but also extensions to existing schemes |
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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stebbo
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« Reply #106 on: September 06, 2011, 21:32:06 » |
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And if NR» can't deliver, who can? Private contractors - sounds a recipe for muddle/disaster. (But then....)
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TerminalJunkie
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« Reply #107 on: September 06, 2011, 21:44:55 » |
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I'm waiting for Btline now...  |
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Daily Mail and Daily Express readers please click here. |
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Btline
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« Reply #108 on: September 06, 2011, 23:21:26 » |
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Won't having a dual fleet and slower trains cost money? And the distance to Swansea surely can't add much more onto the overall costs?
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eightf48544
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« Reply #109 on: September 07, 2011, 10:48:47 » |
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I suppose we should be grateful that we are hopefully getting the wires to Cardiff.
5 years ago or so, even that didn't seem likely
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Rhydgaled
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« Reply #110 on: September 07, 2011, 11:13:34 » |
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The Conspirisy Theroy: The government are only claiming to be the greenest ever to avoid too much oposition and are really intent on enviromental suicide. Electrification gives the impression of being green, but with the bi-mode IEP▸ order and gaps in the wiring plan they seem to have done everything they think they can get away with to keep the CO2 reductions of the programme to a minimum. Also, tearing up the planning guidance and replacing it with a default 'YES to development, anywhere' in the way that they are doing looks very risky. If you go down this route you will eventually cover all the UK▸ in houses and, unless everyone in many other nations promptly vanishes, there is no way a population that vast could be kept fed. It is perhaps an even greater challange than climate change but we need population control.
On a more relevant note, Christian Wolmar mentioned on his website that he thinks the Welsh Assembly's lobbying will pay off and the wires will reach Swansea. To which I commented:
"They better change their mind fairly soon, financial close on the IEP order is coming up this year, then ^52million worth of diesel engines will be purchased for their 70 5-car bi-mode sets. If all those bi-modes are ordered, it would be rather wasteful to electrify to Swansea."
I also mentioned, more breifly, my conspirisy theroy and discussed to other possible reasons for not wiring to Swansea:
(a.) Shortage of funds
(b.) Business case (only 1 passenger train per hour going electric without a micro-fleet of units just for the Swansea - Cardiff stopper, which I'd expect to be extended to Bristol given that plans seem to be afoot to drop the Bristol Parkway stop from the Paddington - Swansea trains after electrification).
If (a.) is the reason, then restricting IEP guage clearance to the ECML▸ and the core Bristol/Cardiff/Oxford route on Great Western might save enough money to extend the wires.
If (b.) is the issue, then ValleyLines electrification needs to be bundled with it, they improve each other's business case. Replacment of all south-Wales stoppers with electric traction in one go (by the 2020 Pacer deadline) would include an hourly Maesteg - Ebbw Vale service and an hourly Cardiff - Cheltenham service (which could be run through from Swansea, replacing the Swansea - Cardiff stopper) in addition to the Paddington - Swansea and a Swansea - Bristol service (run with units from the ValleyLines fleet) covering for the loss of the Bristol stop brings the electric passenger service frequency up both east and west of Cardiff. Between Cardiff and Bridgend there would be 4tph (Swansea - Cheltenham, Swansea - Bristol, Swansea Paddington and Ebbw Vale - Maesteg) with 3 of those running through to Swansea
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Don't DOO▸ it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #111 on: September 07, 2011, 22:45:59 » |
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As this latest discussion is really a continuation of a previous topic on this forum, I've now merged them both here.  |
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William Huskisson MP▸ was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830. Many more have died in the same way since then. Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.
"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner." Discuss.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #112 on: September 08, 2011, 05:26:05 » |
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Easy answer here - they'll go to Swansea, but only if the Welsh Government put their hands in their pockets....
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Btline
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« Reply #113 on: September 08, 2011, 12:02:35 » |
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A good merge, although I wasn't specifically campaigning against bi Mod (as they'll be needed for "West" services for a while).
That's the problem when you desert the boards, you lose track of what's been said!
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paul7575
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« Reply #114 on: September 08, 2011, 13:33:04 » |
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Won't having a dual fleet and slower trains cost money? Where are you getting 'slower trains' from? If you are thinking of the particular issue concerning the 10 car bi-mode when off the wires, they have now decided all the bi-modes will be 5 car running singly or in pairs, so there is no longer a problem with them running at 125 mph (where the track allows). Paul |
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Btline
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« Reply #115 on: September 08, 2011, 14:58:35 » |
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Surely a train carting round a heavy diesel loco or DMU▸ engines is going to have an impact when compared to an EMU▸ . Irrespective of its length.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #116 on: September 08, 2011, 15:06:05 » |
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Not if the engines pump out enough bhp....
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Tim
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« Reply #117 on: September 08, 2011, 16:57:34 » |
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Having a bi-mode train will not cost extra money because only 5 coaches will travel between Cardiff and Swansea. Might be more energy efficient too than burning fuel or electricity to take 8 or 10 coaches that far west.
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Not from Brighton
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« Reply #118 on: September 09, 2011, 00:31:23 » |
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I would have thought a significant disadvantage of bi-modes vs pure electric would be the cost of maintaining them. This would be made worse by the fact that the engines would be shut down most of the time so would spend a disproportionate amount of time warming up.
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eightf48544
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« Reply #119 on: September 09, 2011, 10:00:48 » |
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Roger Ford has been querying bi-mode IEP▸ figures ever since the proposals were first put forward.
In the current editon of Modern railways he is puzzling why:
" .....the IEP is predicted to use up to 45% more energy per mile than a Pendolino under the.whilst sipping only half the fuel of a Voyager?"!
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