Plymouth and the city's lack of services!

[whole diary]

[Plymboi]

There is something that really iritates me about rail services in Devon and that is the lack of services from Plymouth. A city with a population size of 250,000 has only a Branch line service to Gunnislake, a slow service to London Paddington and Bristol with the odd Cross Country service to Glasgow, Manchester and Leeds.

But there should be more. What happened to the South West trains servcice to London Waterloo that could have still carried on to Plymouth rather then Penzance. And the Brighton service vanished years ago and that is a service that i feel worked and should have not disspaeared. I also cant see why you could not do a Barnstaple/Exmouth to Plymouth carry it on abit. The amount of people i have seen on the Torquay/Paignton service have fisnished there joureny to Plymouth. And how about a Cardiff - Plymouth service? I dont see why the lack of investment into transport to Plymouth on rail is so bad. The airport has closed and Plymouth is threatend with being cut off from the rest of the country. Especially with the New eletrification stopping at Exeter, plymouh is larger and more people finish there journey in Plymouth then Exeter. 

[ChrisB]

No one is using it, otherwise the air service wouldn't have stopped.

Show me your proof that more use Plymouth than Exeter?

The flows to anywhere but London are so small that changing where necessary is best option for the money. You have hourly to London & hourly XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service too. Prove to me that trains are overcrowded leaving PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains).

[grahame]

No one is using it, otherwise the air service wouldn't have stopped.

Not a Plymouth specific point here, ChrisB (I don't know Plymouth well enough) but it strikes me ...

a) There are cases where services have been pulled in spite of good and growing use.  "Use it or loose it" became rather more "use it and loose it" in at least one case in December 2006.   17:40 train, 2 car, packed commuter train on Friday, 8th.  Nothing for over an hour more on 11th ... and the morning commuter train in the other direction moved 30 minutes earlier, destroying a usable service as far as the users were concerned.    It don't think it's fair to assume that a service will be provided just because it would be well used.

b) Of course no-one is using it.  How could anyone currently be using a service that no longer exists 

[ChrisB]

Air southWest stated it closed thtough insufficient use

[LiskeardRich]

Air Southwest closed there busiest route to Gatwick enough said based on the above! Flybe are at least 95% full every flight to Gatwick from Newquay.

[Maxwell P]

I fully expect to be the subject of a fatwah from the Janner Taliban for this, but isn't it time for a reality check?

What does a loose knit conurbation of 250K inhabitants, struggling city centre,declining industrial base and increasingly low skilled workforce have to offer?  Factor in an antiquated and inadequate airport; also consider that the regional business capital and comparatively thriving city of Exeter, complete with burgeoning airport is only c50 miles away and it's no surprise that it's game over for Roborough.  Exeter may be smaller in terms of city population, but it is the natural hub for a expansive and reasonably wealthy hinterland.

Perhaps Plymouth's lack of services are in direct proportion to its lack of dynamism, ambition and appeal as a place for investment.

AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know), there are no plans to electrify to Exeter, let alone Plymouth, so for the foreseeable, that door is closed too.

[LiskeardRich]

i can see your comments Maxwell p. We'd much rather travel to Exeter for a day out then Plymouth. (live in penryn) as Exeter seems a far more pleasant city. As you drive or ride the train into plymouth you see awful run down housing estates *runs for cover* whereas you drive into Exeter the housing estates dont look too bad. After all first impressions are everything!

[The Grecian]

There's the simple fact as well that there are a much wider variety of lines which use Exeter as a hub. The Barnstaple, Exmouth and Paignton lines centre on Exeter while the Waterloo line starts there. Plymouth only has the Gunnislake line and maybe the Tavistock line (which uses much of the same route) in the future.

Unless trains on the lines that are there are usually heaving, it's hard to see where the demand would be. Incidentally my experience of SWT^▸ (South West Trains) services west of Exeter is that other than in high summer or on commuter services they were very lightly used - certainly when I travelled through Exeter they were much busier east of Exeter.

I believe the Penzance - Portsmouth Harbour service that Wessex used to run via Westbury was generally well used - but as it was only a 2-car train, it probably lost money.

[Devon Big Bird]

mmm, interesting comments. I car share from Torquay to Plymouth daily to work at the Uni (significant Plymouth employer). Now, if I didn't share, it would be cheaper to buy a season than commute by car, with the cost of fuel and all that...

BUT, the first train (apart from 1C99!!) gets in at 0815 (give or take...) This is too late, I like to be in for 0730 but there's no option (leaving TQY @ 0640 by car)

If I was heading in the opposite direction or indeed from PNZ then plenty of choice, as is the nature of a line that sends early morning trains in a specific direction.

Is rail travel to a so called major conurbation really considered? OK, not an easy question, but who do we 'blame'? Rail Partnerships, FGW^▸ (First Great Western), NR^» (Network Rail - home page)?

How do (tongue in cheek here) the 'suppliers' actually listen to the 'market'?

Is this over simplifying a complex situation...?

[smokey]

There's also a lack of services into Plymouth.

Looking just at the Monday to Friday service in the early morning

Plymouth is (shall we say) roughly equal in population (to prevent WW3) to Exeter in size, yet whilst there are trains from Exeter arriving at Plymouth at 04:30 (04:50ish on Monday) the next arrival from Exeter arrives at Plymouth at 08:12

However trains arrive at Exeter St D from Plymouth  at 06:10 06:21 06:33 06:50 07:21 07:42 07:51 before 08:00

Great for those that live in Plymouth & Work in Exeter.

About as much use as a Chocolate Frying Pan for those that live in Exeter & work in Plymouth.

To me the 06:40 Plymouth-Gunnislake should start back at Exeter at 05:40 calling Dawlish, Teignmouth, Newton Abbot, Totnes and Ivybridge.

[Maxwell P]

There's also a lack of services into Plymouth.

Looking just at the Monday to Friday service in the early morning

Plymouth is (shall we say) roughly equal in population (to prevent WW3) to Exeter in size, yet whilst there are trains from Exeter arriving at Plymouth at 04:30 (04:50ish on Monday) the next arrival from Exeter arrives at Plymouth at 08:12

However trains arrive at Exeter St D from Plymouth  at 06:10 06:21 06:33 06:50 07:21 07:42 07:51 before 08:00

Great for those that live in Plymouth & Work in Exeter.

About as much use as a Chocolate Frying Pan for those that live in Exeter & work in Plymouth.

To me the 06:40 Plymouth-Gunnislake should start back at Exeter at 05:40 calling Dawlish, Teignmouth, Newton Abbot, Totnes and Ivybridge.

Population of Exeter is less than half that of Plymouth.  Nevertheless, I maintain that this is a red herring.  The overall value of Exeter as a destination is far greater than that of Plymouth, particularly when viewed from further east.

Extending the 00:40 is probably viable though, albeit with an EX crew as far as PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains).

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

what time and where does the first cardiff service from the south west start?

[JayMac]

what time and where does the first cardiff service from the south west start?

From Plymouth 0520 XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)), change at Bristol TM^‡(resolve), arrive 0846
From Penzance 0505 (HST^▸ (High Speed Train)) FGW^▸ (First Great Western), change at Exeter SD and Bristol TM, arrive 1043.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

sorry bnm i ment direct service from exeter if there still is one?

[LiskeardRich]

i believe the furthest west the cdfs come is taunton, may be wrong though?