Great Western franchise to be broken up?

[whole diary]

[woody]

According to the Plymouth herald Chris Grayling, the Transport Secretary, is said to be considering splitting Great Western when the franchise comes up for renewal in 2020.
Under the new structure, a separate franchise would be created to operate trains from Devon and Cornwall on the Great Western line into London.
http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/new-rail-franchise-could-start-running-plymouth-trains/story-30079229-detail/story.html

[JayMac]

What of the 20 or so per week day 'cross border' local and semi-fast GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) services between Cornwall/Devon and Somerset/Bristol?

Will this Devon and Cornwall franchisee be permitted to operate to London via (and calling at) Bristol, Bath, Chippenham, Swindon as well as via Castle Cary?

Perhaps they can also route some services from Cornwall and Devon to London via Melksham!

[Chris from Nailsea]

The Great Western Railway franchise to run trains from the South West into London could be broken up, according to reports.

Hmm.  I'd be rather more interested / concerned if their sources from such 'reports' were actually quoted by the Plymouth Herald.  

[woody]

The Times also reports at http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/grayling-plot-to-split-great-western-lines-qzrt8g8pq                                                                             "Grayling plot to split Great Western lines"....Transport secretary Chris Grayling is toying with breaking up one of Britain’s biggest rail franchises as he tries to introduce more competition in the industry.
His officials are exploring the possibility of splitting Great Western, which links London, south Wales, Devon and Cornwall, when the deal to run it ends in three years.

[grahame]

"Grayling plot to split Great Western lines"....Transport secretary Chris Grayling is toying with breaking up one of Britain’s biggest rail franchises as he tries to introduce more competition in the industry."
His officials are exploring the possibility of splitting Great Western, which links London, south Wales, Devon and Cornwall, when the deal to run it ends in three years.

You could, of course, split the trains based on the fleets that run them as that makes for logical operational groups.

Severn and Solent Rail - based on Bristol and operating 165 and 166 units
Peninsular Rail - based in Exeter and running 150 and 158
Great Western Railway - based at Bristol Parkway and running 800 and 801
Thames Valley Trains - based at Reading and running electric trains with some diesel powered branches
West Express - based at North Pole and running class 802

Sounds a bit like a pendulum swinging to somewhere we've been before and a bit beyond. 

[Rhydgaled]

I think the franchise should be kept together; what's the point of the owning-group-neutral GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) livery (presumably intended to limit repaints to when the paint is life-expired rather than both then and when the owning group changes) is you're now going to split it up? Some toying round the edges maybe, such as East-West/Chiltern for routes north/east of Oxford (and, if you want some competition, perhaps extending the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) Waterloo-Exeter services further into Devon).

You could, of course, split the trains based on the fleets that run them as that makes for logical operational groups.

Severn and Solent Rail - based on Bristol and operating 165 and 166 units
Peninsular Rail - based in Exeter and running 150 and 158
Great Western Railway - based at Bristol Parkway and running 800 and 801
Thames Valley Trains - based at Reading and running electric trains with some diesel powered branches
West Express - based at North Pole and running class 802

Where does Cardiff-Portsmouth fit in all that? Bristol local services to Weston-Super-Mare, Portishead and Severn Beach might be ok with Turbos, but the regional express route needs something better than outer-suburban stock. Transfer to SWT and run with Salisbury's trusty 158s/159s (which would have to be suplemented with a new build of similar units, ideally a 3rd rail + diesel bi-mode)?

[Tim]

Transport secretary Chris Grayling is toying with breaking up one of Britain’s biggest rail franchises as he tries to introduce more competition in the industry.
 

Competition requires two companies running the same or comparable routes.  Thames trains and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) were in competition on the Reading-London route in the past.  Virgin and Chiltern compete on trains to Birmingham. But if you split the franchise up by region how is that an encouragement of competition?  It isn't like a company running Tilehurt to Pangborne is competing with one running Liskard to Looe. 

[Noggin]

Some of the current franchise tenders, such as London Midland and SWT^▸ (South West Trains) are being let on the basis that certain areas, such as the West Midlands and London inner suburban are to be run as separate business units so that responsibility could be taken over by TfWM / TfL^» (Transport for London - about), and presumably it mandates separate accounting so that costs can be clearly understood.

Arguably it might be a good idea for there to be an element of that within the new GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) franchise (Devon & Cornwall, MetroWest), but I'm not sure that it would be sensible to actually devolve them until there was a single well established and funded local body to oversee them.

[Bmblbzzz]

Transport secretary Chris Grayling is toying with breaking up one of Britain’s biggest rail franchises as he tries to introduce more competition in the industry.
 

Competition requires two companies running the same or comparable routes.  Thames trains and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) were in competition on the Reading-London route in the past.  Virgin and Chiltern compete on trains to Birmingham. But if you split the franchise up by region how is that an encouragement of competition?  It isn't like a company running Tilehurt to Pangborne is competing with one running Liskard to Looe. 

My thoughts too. As long as you have regional franchising, you cannot have a meaningful level of competition.

[woody]

  and presumably it mandates separate accounting so that costs can be clearly understood.

Absolutely, the bottom line I suspect especially given the big fall in passenger numbers now (seen on internal staff documents) since 2015/16 on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) in the south west peninsula is that the government really wants the costs of running what is an increasingly monolithic and inefficient GWR to be much more transparent.

[grahame]

Where does Cardiff-Portsmouth fit in all that?

My tongue in cheek suggestion took exactly the three franchises that were combined into the Greater Western and split them back up ... Thames Valley more or less "as was" and each of the other two divided.   So all former "Wessex trains" operations from Cardiff / now from Bristol would be part of "Severn and Solent Rail" which would stretch to Portmouth with occasional whisps to Brighton, to Weymouth, to Taunton, to Worcester and Great Malvern, and to Cardiff.

[ChrisB]

  and presumably it mandates separate accounting so that costs can be clearly understood.

Absolutely, the bottom line I suspect especially given the big fall in passenger numbers now (seen on internal staff documents) since 2015/16 on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) in the south west peninsula is that the government really wants the costs of running what is an increasingly monolithic and inefficient GWR to be much more transparent.

But the Devon/Cornwall franchise will never show a profit - why would the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) want another franchise on its books that needs taxpayer support - when while combined with GWR it can show a profit?

[woody]

  and presumably it mandates separate accounting so that costs can be clearly understood.

Absolutely, the bottom line I suspect especially given the big fall in passenger numbers now (seen on internal staff documents) since 2015/16 on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) in the south west peninsula is that the government really wants the costs of running what is an increasingly monolithic and inefficient GWR to be much more transparent.

But the Devon/Cornwall franchise will never show a profit - why would the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) want another franchise on its books that needs taxpayer support - when while combined with GWR it can show a profit?

Precisely, why indeed would Chris Grayling be even thinking such a thing unless he is looking at reducing rail operations to more sustainable levels subsidy wise in Devon and Cornwall longer term by using local rather than national economic drivers.

[Tim]

Could this have arisen out of concern that there is only a limited number of companies willing to take on the risk of a large franchise.  This could mean a poor deal for the tax payer.  Smaller franchises might be small enough to encourage new entrants to the business keen to undercut First, DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) and SNCF^▸ (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) with their bids.   

Perhaps not a bad idea.  I just get this feeling that we are going round in circles.  ten years from now they will be merging small franchises as a way of improving reliability. 

[RichardB]

  and presumably it mandates separate accounting so that costs can be clearly understood.

Absolutely, the bottom line I suspect especially given the big fall in passenger numbers now (seen on internal staff documents) since 2015/16 on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) in the south west peninsula is that the government really wants the costs of running what is an increasingly monolithic and inefficient GWR to be much more transparent.

I've got the latest passenger figures and there hasn't been a big fall in passenger numbers in Devon & Cornwall since 2015/16.  In 2015/16 itself, there was what looked like a big fall on the Cornish main line, the Newquay line and to an extent also the St Ives line.  As you can imagine, we were very concerned about this and GWR investigated what had happened.  It turned out to be the result of an unusual Orcats split which washed out of the system in Period 2 this year (May) and the apparent falls of 15/16 have been reversed.    

In terms of the branch lines, Exmouth, Gunnislake, Looe and Newquay have all had their best years yet (our records go back to 2001) with slight fall backs on Falmouth and Barnstaple and a bit bigger on St Ives, that mainly as a result of the St Erth fire in August.