Night Riviera Sleeper train - between Paddington and Penzance

[whole diary]

[stuving]

I thought it was a bit surprising that sleeper services were expanded so much so late - up to the 1980s - before dropping sharply for the obvious reason. But that was not just the after-effect of wartime limitations. Looking for a few quotes on the subject, I was surprised to find out that all sleeping cars were first class until the 1920s. And if you look at early timetables you will find a lot of overnight trains, but few of them with sleeping car accommodation.

There were news reports of second class sleepers as a new idea in Italy and France in 1922, and at the same time making them compulsory in Britain was being discussed for inclusion in the Railways Act. Then in Daily News (London) 03 August 1928:
"Third-class sleepers | To be running in September | Coaches now being built | Third-class "sleepers" will be running on the British railways on September 24th. The work of building these coaches is going ahead as rapidly as possible, and it is expected that the initial demand from third-class sleeping facilities is one that will grow rapidly."
(Note the quotation marks, capitalisation, etc!)

Clearly the companies were not keen. You might like this discussion of the impact of amalgamation from 1927 (Hansard), as an interesting comparison with today. In it, Lord Monkswell for the opposition said:

With regard to third-class sleeping carriages, it would be indecent to expect the railway companies to abandon their first line of defence, so we are duly informed that they do not consider there is any demand for sleeping bunks of a simple type. After that we are told that third-class sleeping carriages would add too much to the weight of the trains and would be too expensive. My suggestion is that third-class sleeping carriages with three tiers of bunks of a simple construction exactly like those used in the ambulance trains during the War, should be introduced. The expense of building and maintaining carriages of this kind cannot differ appreciably from the expense of building and maintaining ordinary third-class carriages. They could be made to accommodate about three-quarters of the numbers of passengers which a third-class carriage of the same dimensions will accommodate and as the bunks would have to be reserved beforehand they could be better filled. There is no real difficulty in introducing them, and as for the absence of demand I do not believe a word of it.

[ChrisB]

Yes, even into the 1970s, there were many ‘overnight’ trains….generally mail, milk & newspapers. Twas a regular user of them in my young(er) years, returning from late-nights out!

[w056863]

I cant give the exact numbers but anecdotaly its the main way for Scillies residents to go up to London .

I remember being on the sleeper as a child and my parents whispering "that's Harold Wilson.... smell the pipe smoke.... looks like his copper has the cabin next to him...."

Must have been around mid-late '80s. Seemed to be Harold Wilson took the helicopter from Penzance, whilst we were on the "Vomit Vessel"

[1st fan]

Read this thread and read up on the works which sound difficult but needed. Then I wondered how the sleeper met the accessibility regulations. I googled that which lead me to this page which has a spreadsheet detailing the exemptions etc.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/heavy-rail-fleet-porterbrook-night-riviera-sleeper

Then I found another link via Google about the sleeper carriages, Porterbrook and accessibility. That lead me to the second document on that page

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/907753/gwr-night-riviera-dispensation_document.pdf

which is odd because there’s no mention of Porterbrook on it. Then I realised somebody at DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) doesn’t know how to redact a document properly

[CyclingSid]

And hopefully will not copy this https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/news/e-bikes-banned-from-caledonian-sleeper-trains-after-risk-assessment-3583

[GBM]

Whilst looking at the sleeper delay on journeycheck just now, I spotted this comment on RealTime Trains -
288.52  Reading [RDG^▸ (Rail Delivery Group, or Reading station, depending on context)]   
Service gains coaches here, stops to drop passengers off only
.........
+66

I'd never noticed it gains coaches at Reading - is this for an early morning Reading commuter rush into London?

And just noticed the down sleeper drops off coaches on its run down!

[grahame]

Whilst looking at the sleeper delay on journeycheck just now, I spotted this comment on RealTime Trains -
288.52  Reading [RDG^▸ (Rail Delivery Group, or Reading station, depending on context)]   
Service gains coaches here, stops to drop passengers off only
.........
+66

I'd never noticed it gains coaches at Reading - is this for an early morning Reading commuter rush into London?

And just noticed the down sleeper drops off coaches on its run down!

I would suspect it might gain a locomotive on the back? ... As it says "stops to drop off passengers only" it can't officially provide an extra commuter service - though I suspect staff could use it as such.

[TaplowGreen]

A pretty spectacular delay to the down sleeper last night.......should just about reach Penzance in time for lunch!

23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54

04/07/22 23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54 has been delayed at Reading and is now 187 minutes late.
This is due to a fault on this train.

[IndustryInsider]

Due in to Penzance at around 09:15, 80 minutes late currently.

[GBM]

A pretty spectacular delay to the down sleeper last night.......should just about reach Penzance in time for lunch!

23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54

04/07/22 23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54 has been delayed at Reading and is now 187 minutes late.
This is due to a fault on this train.

Steadily made up time on its journey - due to the large make-up schedule.
Plymouth scheduled 47 minutes, sleeper only stopped for two minutes!
Now only 81 minutes down from Saltash

[TaplowGreen]

A pretty spectacular delay to the down sleeper last night.......should just about reach Penzance in time for lunch!

23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54

04/07/22 23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54 has been delayed at Reading and is now 187 minutes late.
This is due to a fault on this train.

Steadily made up time on its journey - due to the large make-up schedule.
Plymouth scheduled 47 minutes, sleeper only stopped for two minutes!
Now only 81 minutes down from Saltash

Blimey, that would have been a very quick "wake up, get dressed, get off" at Plymouth then! 

[grahame]

Plymouth scheduled 47 minutes, sleeper only stopped for two minutes!

Exeter St Davids scheduled 64 minutes, sleeper only stopped for four minutes.  Hardly time to turn off the engines before starting them up again - or would they normally idle for the hour?

[Pb_devon]

Whilst looking at the sleeper delay on journeycheck just now, I spotted this comment on RealTime Trains -
288.52  Reading [RDG^▸ (Rail Delivery Group, or Reading station, depending on context)]   
Service gains coaches here, stops to drop passengers off only
.........
+66

I'd never noticed it gains coaches at Reading - is this for an early morning Reading commuter rush into London?

And just noticed the down sleeper drops off coaches on its run down!

As Graham hinted, a loco is attached to the rear of the up train to haul it back to Reading for servicing. Then the down sleeper is top & tailed into PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) in the evening, and the rear loco detached at Reading on the way down.

[IndustryInsider]

Due in to Penzance at around 09:15, 80 minutes late currently.

Arrived at 09:19.  Perfect for a free late breakfast from GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) courtesy of Delay Repay…as well as a free lunch and probably dinner.

[Jamsdad]

Truely a silver lining!